About methods, measurements, errors, baits and the art of debating

[GuateGojira]

I was willing to forget this dark issue, caused by @WaveRiders, but I saw his last post on Carnivora and is really rubbish how this guy is trying not only to discredit me, but the entire forum in the process. For that reasons, I think is time to slap him in the face and clean some of the crap that he is spreading there. I am going to separate the important point here, to avoid confusion.

1. Who is @WaveRiders?
The first time that we met was in the old AVA forum, and I was pleased that he had good knowledge of prehistoric great cats. We had good conversations and our conclusions were acceptable. Some time latter, he disappeared. In this year, he entered here and I was pleased again, taking in count that he had good references in our old conversations. Sadly, the Wave that came here was just s shadow of the one in AVA. This new person was arrogant, excluded ANY evidence presented by the posters and NEVER, I repeat NEVER, showed a single drop of evidence. I entered in the game and the result was that Waveriders was injured in his pride and leave the place.

Well, time passed until some posters here and in Carnivora (oh yes, I have people there that PM me about your activities there...) warned me that this person was trashing @peter and me in that forum. It was an unpleasant surprise to see that the good poster, that have became an arrogant one, now transformed in a common troll, showing his own opinions and searching old mistakes in order to attack me and the forum. He always said that he was a "professional", but clearly his actions showed the contrary. I am not a saint, but I had never hidden my character and my personality, and over all, I always speak in the face of my contender. What @WaveRiders has done in Carnivora was a COWARD move that finally showed his true colors. In fact, a "professional" don't do that, unless that the idea of "professionalism" of Waves means to attack people at his back.

He manage to found two real mistakes and two nonsense, one of them an old issue that was already corrected. Let's see them:

   a. Weights of bears: http://carnivoraforum.com/topic/9380132/27/
       Yes, I included the three bears and my mistake was not to check the document. I created a new image but he insisted in irrelevant issues. What a waste of time for him, as NO ONE cares about his post. The image stands, one big fail for his agenda.

    b. The pregnant tigress: http://carnivoraforum.com/topic/9329149/6/
        Good one, I put the date wrong, so he proved that the tigress was in fact pregnant during her capture. However, taking in count that a tiger cub weigh about 1 kg (less in the womb) and the average of 14 kg for a baited tigress (probably even less in 24 hours period), the empty belly weight of that tigress was still about c.148 kg or even more, not that far of my c.150 kg estimation. Again, no one gives a damn to his post. Second big fail Wave.

    c. The lions from "Ngorongoro": http://carnivoraforum.com/topic/9329122/3/
        This one is an epic fail from him, because those males were already classified in the Ngorongoro Conservation Area long before he even showed that in a particular topic of this forum. If he is willing to see my old tables of the East African lions, it is quite clear that the lions were labeled as "Ngorongoro C. A." It seems that Wave can't read (what does not suit him).

    d. Measurements of the Hobatore lions, check post 45: http://carnivoraforum.com/topic/9329122/3/
        This last one show how desperate is this ridiculous person to gain attention, after three failed intents. He claim that I was unable to see how those lions were measured and he state this:

Waveriders wrote: "The correct head-and-body length from nose tip to tail root is obviously computed adding the head length, the neck length (not reported for the largest animal but roughly estimable if one wants to do it) and the body length."

Where he get that the neck length was not included??? Check this out please:

*This image is copyright of its original author

It say "From the base of neck to base of tail". The base of neck is also called "nape", so let's see a few images of the nape in lions:

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

And of course, this:

*This image is copyright of its original author

At the base of neck to the base of tail. Sadly, for Wave now the images, magically are not evidence!!!

Four shoots, four ignored posts, but from these two were HIS mistakes.

Finally, the moral issue. He claim that he is/was a "professional" (in what? we certainly don't know). However, @Pckts ask him for evidence of his credentials and his "new" SUPPOSED travels along the globe (sic!). The answer of Wave was:

"My credentials? I have no credentials. If I had credentials I would not be around. I am just WaveRiders, a man of science with some relevant field experience in the wilderness of 4 continents as a wildlife observer." AND "I showed one picture in case you did not realize that, The first time I have done in nearly 12 years. I am not interested in sharing my experiences in these kind of discussion and talk about my life. I wish you will be able to do one day all the experiences I already made in Africa and elsewhere."

So, now he is a nobody, in his own words??? And the photos of the "trips", what happen with them??? As he claim that he is an "older" person, maybe he forgot where are them... A medicine of the mind can be useful Wave.

At the end, he is always the same crap: he say that he knows "information", but never show evidence, he says that have "contacts", but again, never say who are! He say that he knows a lot of methods and that his statements are always correct, but what he shows are just HIS OPINIONS and are never backup with data. He has never show anything new, and even about the prehistoric cats, now we know more than him thanks for the several published papers and our TRUE expert @tigerluver has show how wrong is he in many basic anatomical issues.

Finally, in one of his previous statements he say this:
"Please be aware that I have no time and will to debate fabricated e-mails. I do hope and actually firmly believe you or peter or GuateGojira would never come to a point to fabricate e-mails. It is out of my mind you or they could do it by themselves. I would imagine at most they may lie on occasions, they do not talk about clarification e-mails that proved them wrong or partly wrong or that for convenience they may refer to one or more posters who may have fabricated e-mails in the past (I am not necessarily talking about length methods and I may come back on this at some point in the future should anybody want to understand what I am talking about as I precisely know very well what I am talking about and would like to make a clarification on that)."

Are you saying that @peter and I had forged information??? Here, Wave is anticipating the result of his move, he knows that we will not believe in his "communications" because he never show the evidence (he only copied a supposed answer now) and over all, this seems very fishy! Why he defend himself from something that has not happen? Is he actually planing to fake a conversation and since now, he is protecting his move? Certainly this seems the case here.

In respect of the honor, @peter is one of the bests and most honorable posters and have showed this many times. And about me, I have always show ALL the data (something that he recriminated me, in a good form, in AVA), independently of the outcome. If not, let's remember this post: http://animalsversesanimals.yuku.com/rep...ord-205-kg

I showed that mistake, even if it was mine and I was even praised for that. So, his claims that Peter and I are not honorable is just a puke of his brain.

But what about him? He has never show any evidence, he now dedicate ONLY to show our mistakes (and the people still ignores him ) and his acts of attacking a person by the back, show that he is, in fact, a person with no honor and in a trial, honorability adds to your testimony.

Conclusion:
It is evident that @WaveRiders is not a reliable person, and probably with problems of bipolarity, his acts show how dark and honorableness are his ways. If I am going to discuss with someone (like I has done with BoldChamp or Assad/Assadas) I answer to them in the face, not like the coward actions of Wave. So, I ask, are you going to believe in this obscure person, that has never provided evidence of his claims, that had acted like a coward, stabbing in the back of his contenders? An intelligent answer will be NO, but we know that some (just a few) hard-core fans over there will say the contrary.

In his last post in Carnivora (in the lions topic) he stated that Peter, Tigerluver and I are "terribly biased" toward tigers and irrespective lions and bears. This was like a revelation because this show that the anger of Waveriders is not about Science, or measuring methods, is about the old and stupid theme of "Lion vs Tiger" and now also bears, thanks to Warsaw. Peter, I and other posters have showed information of several other animals, but he never attack it, he just go against all the information of tigers (coincidence?). So, if we are a tiger supporter, are we biased? Here we have several lion fans and we have excellent relations because we had forgotten the "vs" theme, but it seems that Wave has not (maybe, because of his age, he has forgotten where he is writing ). Here in "WildFacts" we don't discuss "Vs" issues, we have evolved, maybe you should do the same Wave.

He menaced me and other posters that he is going to search our old posts and will show our mistakes. I say "do it", I don't care, none of us care and in fact, it shows that you have noting productive to do. People like Peter, Tigerluver, myself and many other posters here take the risk and publish they finds. We are not free of mistakes, but between us we correct ourselves and reach the goal of the true information. People like you, Wave, are just sad persons that live seeking the dark point in the entire white sheet.

I am 100% sure that this guy is not going to return here, for the simple reason that he is afraid. I wonder myself what is going to happen if I go to Carnivora, maybe he will just run away to another forum (The World of Animals perhaps), just like a rat run from the cat. You are unbanned now Wave, came here, let's see what happen. Reply