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Smilodon populator

United States tigerluver Offline
Prehistoric Feline Expert
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( This post was last modified: 05-06-2022, 04:12 AM by tigerluver )

I think I will need to post in two parts. One for the skull itself then one on investigating the associations.

For the skull, here is a comparison with two other Middle Pleistocene lions per Marciszak et al. (2014), P. spelaea (Sabol 2018), and P. atrox (Merriam and Stock 1932):

*This image is copyright of its original author

From top to bottom: P. atrox (458 mm), P. spelaea (437 mm), Chateau (484 mm), Mauer (442 mm), Petralona (416 mm)

Now from visual assessment, either Chateau is presenting a very weasel-like, low, and long skull that shows some extreme uniqueness in P. fossilis, or the taphonomic distortion due to crushing is immense.


*This image is copyright of its original author


Note the following:
1. The relative position of the prosthion to the condyles. In all lions, the condyles are higher. In Chateau, the condyles are lower.

2. The ventral margin of the snout shows where the skull is clearly crushed. One can follow the dashed line to see the break's boundary. Now here is a figure that is attempting to put the two halves back together in a more anatomically natural position (outlined white is the old area and position of the skull):


*This image is copyright of its original author

Note this fixes the relative positions of the prosthion and condyles:

*This image is copyright of its original author


This morphology better matches with the other Middle Pleistocene lions and therefore I feel that the low set nature of the skull as it is presented is due to taphonomic distortion/crushing and not actually representative of a unique morphology. Had the other two Middle Pleistocene lion skulls not been available, I would not be as convinced. 

With that, the 484 mm value is seemingly then not the true length of the skull. From the 2D image comparison it appears the GSL measurements shrinks by about 5%. Then we have to factor in the crushing force lengthening the skull as a whole. This probably reduces the true GSL to around 460 mm. Still giant of course, but in the ranks of P. atrox and P. spelaea.
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Smilodon populator - epaiva - 10-03-2017, 08:32 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - epaiva - 10-03-2017, 08:48 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - epaiva - 10-03-2017, 08:53 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - P.T.Sondaica - 05-12-2018, 11:54 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - epaiva - 07-21-2018, 08:41 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - epaiva - 07-21-2018, 10:01 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - epaiva - 08-14-2018, 01:54 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - epaiva - 08-19-2018, 08:41 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - GrizzlyClaws - 08-20-2018, 12:59 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - epaiva - 10-03-2018, 06:33 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - Pckts - 10-03-2018, 06:48 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - Wolverine - 11-10-2018, 12:34 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - Spalea - 11-10-2018, 02:58 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - Wolverine - 11-10-2018, 08:21 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - Spalea - 11-10-2018, 09:16 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - Wolverine - 11-11-2018, 06:15 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - Spalea - 11-11-2018, 06:33 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - tigerluver - 11-10-2018, 10:40 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - brotherbear - 11-10-2018, 11:14 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - Spalea - 11-11-2018, 06:02 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - Wolverine - 11-11-2018, 09:29 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - tigerluver - 11-11-2018, 10:01 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - GrizzlyClaws - 11-11-2018, 10:24 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - tigerluver - 11-11-2018, 10:50 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - GrizzlyClaws - 11-11-2018, 11:07 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - Wolverine - 11-11-2018, 11:03 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - Wolverine - 11-11-2018, 11:27 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - brotherbear - 11-11-2018, 12:10 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - Wolverine - 11-12-2018, 10:46 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - P.T.Sondaica - 11-12-2018, 03:27 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - Wolverine - 11-13-2018, 06:07 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - epaiva - 11-13-2018, 04:18 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - Smilodon-Rex - 12-08-2018, 07:59 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - Smilodon-Rex - 12-10-2018, 06:51 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - P.T.Sondaica - 12-10-2018, 07:02 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - brotherbear - 12-10-2018, 09:34 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - brotherbear - 12-10-2018, 10:13 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - P.T.Sondaica - 12-11-2018, 10:51 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - brotherbear - 12-11-2018, 03:05 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - P.T.Sondaica - 12-11-2018, 04:23 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - brotherbear - 12-11-2018, 04:53 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - epaiva - 02-20-2019, 05:52 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - smedz - 02-20-2019, 07:01 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - epaiva - 02-21-2019, 09:18 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - smedz - 02-24-2019, 01:53 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - GuateGojira - 02-26-2019, 01:22 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - Arctotherium - 04-15-2019, 04:57 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - GuateGojira - 11-28-2019, 07:55 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - Spalea - 01-21-2020, 12:03 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - epaiva - 02-15-2020, 09:40 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - GuateGojira - 03-15-2020, 10:55 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - epaiva - 03-16-2020, 01:06 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - Spalea - 03-17-2020, 06:34 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - GuateGojira - 03-21-2020, 11:37 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - tigerluver - 03-22-2020, 01:35 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - epaiva - 05-19-2020, 03:46 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - epaiva - 08-07-2020, 12:36 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - Smilodon - 09-29-2020, 01:48 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - GreenGrolar - 09-29-2020, 05:58 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - tigerluver - 06-28-2021, 02:20 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - jrocks - 09-22-2021, 01:35 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - tigerluver - 09-22-2021, 07:04 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - jrocks - 09-22-2021, 08:25 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - jrocks - 10-02-2021, 05:19 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - jrocks - 10-25-2021, 08:59 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - tigerluver - 10-25-2021, 10:18 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - jrocks - 10-26-2021, 02:35 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - Sully - 11-01-2021, 07:26 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - T-RexWins - 12-31-2021, 08:49 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - jrocks - 01-06-2022, 08:02 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - tigerluver - 01-06-2022, 09:26 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - jrocks - 01-09-2022, 10:00 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - tigerluver - 01-14-2022, 06:27 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - jrocks - 01-14-2022, 10:25 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - genao87 - 03-29-2022, 11:08 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - epaiva - 03-06-2022, 09:25 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - GuateGojira - 03-30-2022, 04:28 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - genao87 - 03-30-2022, 07:11 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - Jerricson - 04-01-2022, 10:07 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - GuateGojira - 03-31-2022, 12:46 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - tigerluver - 03-31-2022, 10:17 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - GuateGojira - 03-31-2022, 07:18 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - GuateGojira - 03-31-2022, 08:06 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - jrocks - 04-01-2022, 08:49 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - AndresVida - 04-01-2022, 03:07 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - genao87 - 04-01-2022, 07:45 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - AndresVida - 04-01-2022, 03:09 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - tigerluver - 04-01-2022, 09:29 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - jrocks - 04-02-2022, 08:53 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - genao87 - 04-02-2022, 07:11 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - GuateGojira - 04-01-2022, 08:25 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - genao87 - 04-01-2022, 09:56 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - Jerricson - 04-02-2022, 03:10 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - GuateGojira - 04-01-2022, 10:22 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - genao87 - 04-02-2022, 08:04 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - AndresVida - 04-02-2022, 11:02 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - jrocks - 04-03-2022, 02:44 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - Tommy - 04-23-2022, 01:09 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - GuateGojira - 04-23-2022, 05:30 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - Spalea - 04-24-2022, 02:29 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - GreenGrolar - 04-26-2022, 04:58 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - jrocks - 04-27-2022, 02:24 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - GreenGrolar - 04-26-2022, 05:01 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - GreenGrolar - 04-26-2022, 05:15 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - Spalea - 04-26-2022, 06:18 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - Spalea - 04-27-2022, 12:01 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - GuateGojira - 04-27-2022, 12:27 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - GuateGojira - 04-27-2022, 12:42 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - Spalea - 04-27-2022, 01:57 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - GuateGojira - 04-27-2022, 02:08 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - LandSeaLion - 04-27-2022, 08:08 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - LonePredator - 04-28-2022, 10:05 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - tigerluver - 04-29-2022, 02:33 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - LonePredator - 04-29-2022, 02:41 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - tigerluver - 04-30-2022, 02:10 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - LonePredator - 04-30-2022, 02:18 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - Spalea - 04-30-2022, 02:16 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - tigerluver - 04-30-2022, 03:09 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - LonePredator - 04-30-2022, 03:14 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - LonePredator - 04-30-2022, 08:25 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - tigerluver - 04-30-2022, 04:00 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - LonePredator - 04-30-2022, 04:14 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - GuateGojira - 04-30-2022, 04:34 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - tigerluver - 04-30-2022, 05:48 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - tigerluver - 04-30-2022, 08:58 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - jrocks - 05-04-2022, 11:04 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - LonePredator - 05-04-2022, 06:15 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - GuateGojira - 05-04-2022, 08:45 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - jrocks - 05-05-2022, 02:21 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - GuateGojira - 05-05-2022, 03:48 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - tigerluver - 05-05-2022, 04:50 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - GuateGojira - 05-05-2022, 11:52 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - tigerluver - 05-06-2022, 12:21 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - GuateGojira - 05-06-2022, 02:39 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - tigerluver - 05-06-2022, 04:04 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - GuateGojira - 05-06-2022, 04:33 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - tigerluver - 05-06-2022, 04:40 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - GuateGojira - 05-06-2022, 04:47 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - tigerluver - 05-06-2022, 05:50 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - jrocks - 05-07-2022, 03:25 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - tigerluver - 05-06-2022, 05:51 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - GuateGojira - 05-06-2022, 09:59 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - LonePredator - 05-06-2022, 10:02 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - GuateGojira - 05-07-2022, 01:00 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - LonePredator - 05-07-2022, 03:06 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - GuateGojira - 05-08-2022, 07:41 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - jrocks - 05-13-2022, 02:33 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - GuateGojira - 05-13-2022, 03:32 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - jrocks - 05-13-2022, 04:02 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - GuateGojira - 05-13-2022, 04:45 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - jrocks - 05-13-2022, 08:27 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - LonePredator - 05-13-2022, 08:38 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - jrocks - 05-13-2022, 09:01 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - GuateGojira - 05-16-2022, 11:43 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - GuateGojira - 05-16-2022, 11:56 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - jrocks - 05-17-2022, 02:39 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - GuateGojira - 05-17-2022, 02:58 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - jrocks - 05-17-2022, 07:36 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - LonePredator - 05-17-2022, 09:12 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - GuateGojira - 05-17-2022, 08:05 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - LonePredator - 05-17-2022, 08:59 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - jrocks - 05-18-2022, 01:30 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - GuateGojira - 05-17-2022, 09:28 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - LonePredator - 05-17-2022, 10:01 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - jrocks - 05-18-2022, 01:50 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - GuateGojira - 05-18-2022, 02:03 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - LonePredator - 05-18-2022, 05:56 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - GuateGojira - 05-18-2022, 02:13 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - jrocks - 05-18-2022, 02:35 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - GuateGojira - 05-18-2022, 03:53 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - jrocks - 05-18-2022, 03:57 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - GuateGojira - 05-18-2022, 09:59 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - LonePredator - 05-18-2022, 10:08 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - jrocks - 05-28-2022, 03:39 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - GuateGojira - 05-28-2022, 06:13 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - LonePredator - 05-28-2022, 06:26 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - jrocks - 05-28-2022, 09:04 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - LonePredator - 05-28-2022, 09:14 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - jrocks - 05-28-2022, 09:03 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - LonePredator - 05-28-2022, 09:59 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - jrocks - 05-29-2022, 02:09 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - GuateGojira - 05-30-2022, 09:26 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - LonePredator - 05-30-2022, 09:50 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - LonePredator - 05-30-2022, 09:52 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - GuateGojira - 05-30-2022, 11:35 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - LonePredator - 05-31-2022, 05:33 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - GuateGojira - 06-01-2022, 02:06 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - LonePredator - 06-01-2022, 10:15 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - GuateGojira - 06-01-2022, 08:46 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - LonePredator - 06-01-2022, 08:57 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - jrocks - 06-02-2022, 06:56 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - LonePredator - 06-02-2022, 07:54 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - jrocks - 06-02-2022, 08:12 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - LonePredator - 06-02-2022, 08:40 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - jrocks - 06-02-2022, 05:50 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - LonePredator - 06-02-2022, 06:07 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - jrocks - 06-02-2022, 08:45 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - GuateGojira - 06-03-2022, 05:38 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - jrocks - 06-04-2022, 02:08 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - jrocks - 06-08-2022, 04:18 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - GuateGojira - 06-08-2022, 06:10 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - jrocks - 06-08-2022, 08:27 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - LonePredator - 06-20-2022, 09:18 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - GuateGojira - 06-20-2022, 09:50 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - LonePredator - 06-20-2022, 10:03 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - GuateGojira - 06-20-2022, 10:22 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - LonePredator - 06-20-2022, 10:37 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - GuateGojira - 06-20-2022, 11:06 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - jrocks - 07-11-2022, 10:12 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - LonePredator - 11-12-2022, 06:29 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - LandSeaLion - 11-13-2022, 11:24 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - Matias - 11-17-2022, 12:30 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - hibernours - 06-07-2023, 12:57 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - AndresVida - 11-23-2022, 10:33 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - jrocks - 01-23-2023, 09:37 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - jrocks - 01-23-2023, 09:34 AM
RE: Smilodon populator - jrocks - 05-11-2023, 08:43 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - return 80 - 09-14-2023, 10:33 PM
RE: Smilodon populator - jrocks - 02-26-2024, 11:04 PM



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