Which are stronger pound for pound Herbivores or Carnivores?

[Shadow]

(12-27-2018, 12:54 PM)Spalea Wrote:

(12-27-2018, 01:15 AM)Shadow Wrote:

(12-26-2018, 11:18 PM)Spalea Wrote: Cheetahs can run over 500 meters, lions seldom more than 100 meters. Obviously these two predators are not in the same category. Lions are ambush predators like tigers. But because they often hunt in more open spaces and in pride they can combine their efforts and thus, be more efficient over a bigger area than a solitary felid hunter.

Bears don't run as fastly as the felids but yes, despite their weight and morphology, they don't lack stamina and can run over longer distances.

Wild canids are pursuit predators par excellence. They are able to run and hunt over several kilometers and, in numbers, to kill an exhausted big prey.

IMO, "pound for pound" herbivores aren't stronger than predators. Of course, because of  their weight (more than 600 kilos to 1200 kilos), big bovids are stronger, muscularly speaking, than any felid. But why would be they more performing "pound for pound" ?

I agree, but when bears run about 60 km/h and tigers are said to run 65 km/h, I think, that it is ok to say, that bears are comparable to slowest big cats in running speed even though with bear there is maybe a little illusion that it wouldn´t be able to run as fast, when looking them especially before hibernation. Their stamina is of course in totally different level than big cats.

Then again these comparisons pound to pound are really problematic without any reliable and comparable tests. If looking only muscle fibers, myocytes etc. there can be made claims and hypotheses. But far from simple and clear. There are so many variables with different species. I don´t remember seeing any real research about animals compared to pound to pound. Some articles based on pretty much... to nothing really :) One zoologist say something, another something else, then some reporter make an article like "top 10 strongest animals in the world pound to pound"... then when looking closer, just rubbish, but nice headline to sell or use as a "clickbait".

As I already said I also have a problem with the "pound for pound" expression. Because the animals' psychology is quite different according the species. Bovids are able to achieve  some feats  at a sustained rate but slow. How can we compare them at their opposite pattern: the felids able to amazing feats during a very short moment ? We would like to discover a scientific criteria able to classify these animals according this famous "pound for pound" strength .

But I'm reading your arguments with pleasure and interest ! In the meantime, according physical reasons, in my mind the strongest animals "pound for pound" animals, and this by very far, remain the insects, that is animals weighing a tiny fraction of a pound.

Here is linked one book and I point out one interesting thing from there to give some reasoning why I keep this topic very complex. In many threads discussions concern muscle fibers and types. But look at that picture on page 115 and what is said about muscle attachments and what that means when talking about strength. If someone really is interested to make comparisons and trying to be credible, that is for sure quite a "jungle" of information to go through. 

Are we talking about how much animal can lift, drag or pull.... how much power can be in paw swipe? There are for sure some things, which could be compared in some relatively reasonable way. If someone would have time, money and expertise to make it happen. But at least I haven´t heard so far about any tests even between lions and tigers, which would have been made in same way to both to get some comparable data. 

So we have just endless argues here and there, where fanboys are using so much effort to practically nonsense. One example:"tiger can kill sometimes an adult elephant, so it has to be stronger than a lion".... I say just this much, it is impressive thing to do, but tiger for sure isn´t able to kill an elephant because of extraordinary strength compared to other big cats. If it would be about strength, every tiger attacking an elephant would be killed straight away and stomped to wet stain on ground which someone might remotely recognize to be something like maybe tiger remains.... I don´t dare to say which one of those animals really is stronger and so far I haven´t found anyone who would have been able to explain it in convincing way. I personally think, that bigger lion is stronger than smaller tiger and vice versa, but I can be wrong too :)

But anyway, before someone is able to do some serious testing in comparable way, we have just hypotheses and what can be or has been observed and maybe recorded in some way.

Here is that book and page 115 especially: https://books.google.fi/books?id=mTPI_d9...rs&f=false Reply