Which are stronger pound for pound Herbivores or Carnivores?

[Shadow]

(12-26-2018, 05:22 PM)Panther Wrote:

(12-26-2018, 03:37 PM)brotherbear Wrote: An ambush consists of stalking ( stealth ) followed by a terrific burst of *speed. In that explosive burst of speed a lion or a tiger is estimated to hit between 50 and 60 mph.
Edit and add: A big cat is designed for stealth, speed, agility, and strength; all in equal doses. A cat is a contortionist. He can twist and turn almost like a reptile. He is an athlete. A bear ( especially a brown bear ) is built more for strength with speed and agility secondary. He can afford the extra pounds. 

You're dead wrong, brotherbear. The explosive burst of speed has nothing to do with building for speed. For example, a cheetah can't be as explosive as a leopard. Because cheetah built for speed and leopard built for ambush.

You can't rank all bigcats in the same way. They built differently. 
 And no, neither a lion nor a tiger reach 60mph. 
A lion can reach top speed of 50mph. While a tiger can reach top speed of 40mph.

"Lions are powerful animals that usually hunt in coordinated groups and stalk their chosen prey. However, they are not particularly known for their stamina – for instance, a lioness’ heart makes up only 0.57 percent of her body weight (a male’s is about 0.45 percent of his body weight), whereas a hyena’s heart is close to 1 percent of its body weight. Thus, although lionesses can reach speeds of 81 km/h (50 mph), they only can do so for short bursts so they have to be close to their prey before starting the attack."
Source: http://www.speedofanimals.com/animals/lion

"Despite weighing hundreds of kilograms -- up to 500 pounds -- tigers can reach top speeds of 49 to 65 kilometers per hour (35 to 40 miles per hour). They can sustain this speed only over short distances. In addition, they can leap 9 to 10 meters (30 to 33 feet) which makes their leap size just short of a mountain lion's."
Source: https://sciencing.com/how-fast-does-tige...90011.html

Tigers are clearly not built for speed. And I'm not sure bears built for "strength"!

I've asked you a question, you still haven't answered to me @brotherbear. I guess it's simple for you!

If getting real here, then there is no point to argue about irrelevant issues. Tigers, lions and bears all hunt big bovines, like moose, buffalo etc. So they have to be strong able to do that. They have to be fast able to do that. If any of these animals would be weak, they simply wouldn´t be able to hunt anything big. So all of these animals are built for strength and also in speed to some level. If not, they would be hunting smaller and slower animals.

What comes to speed, there are no big differences, bears can run also up to 60 km/h, about 37-38 mph, so quite comparable with tiger. Lion too isn´t so far away. There are cases, where bears have run after horses and able to maintain almost same speed as a horse with rider in full speed. Bear can maintain quite high speed for some time, so it has better stamina, than big cats though.

What comes to big cats, cheetah is maybe only one, which can be considered as pursuit hunter. Able to run about 400 meters before it has to give up. Other big cats like tigers, lions, leopards etc. usually have short chases like 20-40 meters.... if really motivated like lion after hyena up to 100 meters. But if comparing to wolves and wild dogs able to run after prey for kilometers... only cheetah is in some way comparable, other big cats are robust animals and not long distance runners. They need that ambush/surprise advantage to be able to hunt successfully. 

No-one here has solid proof which one is stronger, bear, lion or tiger, so that is pointless to argue about that nonsense all the time if nothing concrete and solid to put on table. I have never heard about any test, which would have done to all of these animals, which would have been comparable. That is the reason why debates about these things are mostly debates about opinions and hopes, not debates based on undeniable facts.

It would be far more interesting (IMO) to see real cases and what information can be found from those than debating about only opinions. This thread is about carnivores and herbivores and now debate is going to sidetrack and fast. Aren´t here enough threads for tigers and bears already or what is the reason to bring that issue everywhere? Especially when no new information, just old information all over again.

Give some real cases to look, there are bulls, gaurs, water buffalos, leopards etc. There is life outside bears and tigers too Reply