Modern Weights and Measurements of Wild Lions

[peter]

(01-18-2018, 11:02 PM)Stealthcat Wrote: I think that's interesting, why would the Nambibia lions be longer I mean how would that aid them in the desert, are there less large spotted hyena clans in the deserts?  From what I can see, is most lions are adapted specifically to be able to fight and kill hyenas in Africa, their bodies are specialized for this, many lions because of this have almost as if a similar design to the Hyena body.  Which I believe results in lions as a species being over all shorter than tigers, and certainly shorter per height and length. In other words, you could have a lion with a decent height, a weight of 500lbs or so, yet its body could be usually short in length for its weight and size. A tiger the same length, would likely be shorter at the shoulder and weigh less. As far as the cattle killing cats, I think for sure this increases their weights, several records show this, even some lions reaching 700 and 800lbs, the list of cattle killed was many.  The Indian cattle is also sometimes easier to kill, their cows are different, very heavy stomachs large with considerable mass in the mid section, yet very thin necks,  and the horns go backwards not forwards, so a large tiger could easily kill a huge Indian cattle with such small neck and throat area.   In contrast the African buffalo has a neck specially designed to resist the lions bite force, which it can contract the neck muscles and tendons like steel rods making it extremely hard to penetrate.

Part of the answer is in post 23, of which paragraph E was edited. To keep it short: size seems to be to food. Lions in northern Namibia have access to a lot of food nearly all the time. They most probably know about the penalty (referring to measures of ranchers), but they don't seem to have a lot of options. If we add that Kalahari and Etosha lions without a nextdoor supermarket also are large, access to cattle can have an extra effect on size.

I don't know if lions living in desert-like regions are larger than lions living in other regions, but they seem to be longer and taller. Long legs no doubt enable them to move with more ease in difficult conditions. If you read the website of Africat, you will notice that lions in northern Namibia, in spite of the heat, are quite active. When the temperature is over 35 degrees Celcius, the Namibians rest. They seem to know how to deal with heat, that is. 

Big cats living in tough conditions seem to be longer and taller than elsewhere, but not heavier. Amur tigers need to be able to deal with long winters, severe cold and deep snow. They also need to walk a lot in order to contact prey animals. Desert lions seem to be more cursorial than lions living elsewhere as well. Both cats need to walk a lot to contact prey animals and both cats have long legs and a long body. Meaby a large body is the best response to both heat and cold. It enables Amur tigers to keep warm, provided they have a winter coat (long hair), and it could enable desert lions to deal with heat (provided they have summer coat). 

At the moment, the Namibians are larger than the Russians, but one has to remember that they have had access to a lot of food for quite some time. A century ago, the Russians also had access to food. Today, most male Amur tigers range between 360-460 pounds. A century ago, when the conditions in the Russian Far East were better, they averaged 475 pounds. If the access to cattle is cut short, male lions in Namibia most probably wouldn't average 203 kg. (446 pounds). Based on what I have, they could be similar to the Russians in similar conditions.

The assumption on size (lions heavier at equal length) is incorrect. At similar length, lions have slightly deeper chests and longer skulls, but not more weight. If anything, it is the other way round. Same for exceptional individuals: exceptional lions are almost as long as exceptional tigers, but not as heavy. One reason is that lions are more cursorial. Another is they have to share. Tigers are not heavier because of their length, but because they are a bit more muscular, especially in the leg department. Tigresses, like lionesses, seem to drive prey animals at times, but males are ambush hunters going for large animals. For them, developing means to quickly subdue large animals, like size, pays. For a social big cat, things are different.

In the past, lions were everywhere. They also were larger than today. The reason was more large prey animals everywhere. When these, as a result of climate change, disappeared in the Late Pleistocene, lions had to adapt. They did in that they lost size. In spite of that, they disappeared as well. Pleistocene tigers, like lions, also lost size, but not as much as in lions. The reason is that Asia still has a number of large herbivores. Large enough for a specialist to make a decent living.

Scavengers most probably do not affect the size of big cats. Male lions are more than big enough to engage any scavenger. In spite of that, they are displaced by hyenas at times. In lions and hyenas, it is about the combined weight. For this reason, lions need to operate in groups. Solitary big cats also face scavengers, but these do not operate in groups. Size is important, but in a one-on-one, agility and speed also count. So much so, that male Amur tigers are not often displaced by male brown bears. This in spite of a significant weight deficit.

My guess is that scavengers have little impact on the size of lions, provided they live in groups. For big cats living on plains, it is about seen and be seen. This is necessary to avoid conflict. The need for visibility resulted in long legs and a large skull with a mane. And a great voice. For solitary big cats, it is about not being seen.

Both cats are very territorial. The difference is that lions often (not when males are on their own) respond directly, whereas tigers use a different method to interact. They have to, as a one-on-one about property can have serious consequences.

The question regarding Namibian lions is why females in particular respond to more access to food. Could it be they do because they, more than male lions, compare to male tigers? Not sure about that one. Reply