Modern Weights and Measurements of Wild Lions

[SpinoRex]

(02-13-2022, 03:08 AM)GuateGojira Wrote:

(02-12-2022, 06:18 AM)SpinoRex Wrote: Its pretty simple. A nonterretorial males doesnt have to share his food with the other pride members and therefore has significantly more meat available. Also lions dont have the same food intake as tigers thats for sure especially when we are talking about males. Based on the numbers provided by Smuts the empty belly weight for Dealt Keets lions have to be c.192 kg empty. Also 15 kg is near to bulging as i know.

Quote:The MDR of adult lionesses ( X bodymass=124 kg, N =95; Smuts et al. 1980) was thus esti-mated to be 5.3 kg/day, with adult males ( X bodymass=188 kg, N =41; Smuts et al. 1980) requiring 8.1 kg/day. Based on direct observations, females and territorialmales did not consume significantly more or less than the estimated MDR(8.1 kg), whereas nonterritorial males did (Table 4).

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

Thats just my view ... feel free to disagree

Of course I disagree and is not because is your point of view, is because you are using incorrect information, and I know why you have these missconceptions.

First: Who told you that lions and tigers do not have the same food intake? We are talking about two animals of about the same size, the same metabolism and even then, there is still a person (Boldchamp of course...) in this world that believe that these two animals do not have the same food intake? What is the base of this?

Do you know that those amounts that you quote in the previous image about the daily requirements (5 to 8 kg) are just ESTIMATIONS? Those are just the estimated amount that an adult lion may need in a daily basis. Those are not real food intakes. Check the real food intakes of lions:

*This image is copyright of its original author

This is from George Schaller (1972):

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

And this is from Sunqusit and Sunqusit (2002):

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

As you can see there is a big difference between the estimated daily intake and the real intake that lions actually eat. Also, the other studies (focused entirely in females) shows the variation on in food intake from 4 to 14 kg and this is depending of the seasons. But this do not affect the large population of lions, like in Kenya-Tanzania-South Africa where most weight figures are available, as they prey base is regular. Take in count that lions hunt more in a regular basis than tigers, a tiger can kill 1 animal per 7-8 days while lions do it avery 4 days and that is why while the food intake may look lower in some populations, is because they eat more regularly. After all, the prey base of most of lion habitats is much bigger than even the biggest Indian parks.

Now, check the daily estimation for tiger food intake:

*This image is copyright of its original author

As you can see, is even less than the estimated for lions (5 to 7 kg per day for tigers). Now, check the real food intake of tigers, but take in count that contrary to lions, we only have two studies, one from Kanha (with Schaller) and one from Chitwan (with Sunquist):

From Schaller (1967):

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

From Sunquist (1981):

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

And from Sunquist & Sunquist (2002):

*This image is copyright of its original author

As you can see, there are basically the same values, on averages and maximum, and even then tigers are bigger.  There are several studies of lion intake and its variations, while there are only two studies of tigers intake so the variations are unknown and definitelly exist.

Hope this point is clarified and stop following the ideas of Boldchamp. This is point clarified since many years ago but it seems than that crazy lion-fanatic still drag his lies and sadly persons like you belive in him. Check the data first, do not believe in third party interpretations.

You are pointing most of the time individual ones. So in terms of a average food intake on a daily basis thats pretty useless. Among all cats there is no consistence in energy intake. These estimates alone were mere estimations by Smuts and later observed, which made the data usable in the first place(not the estimate of the MDR alone). Even if these are estimates i doubt these are significantly different as they are based on observation to check the estimated MDR, which is alone not much of use. (There are countless estimated food intakes for both species)

A male lion as i said before has to share his food with a pride. Thus it has less meat available and therefore cant eat as much as a nonterretorial male when both have a dead carcass. Thats not a misconception but a clear cut fact and the fact that the difference was significant shows it. Alone that should a enlightment because basically its mentioning "pack" male lions and "solitary" lions. Tigers will represent those solitary lions if not even in a more advanced version. Not mentioning there are more annoying scavengers in africa and some animals like Hyenas and maybe Wild dogs are a proper threat to lone lions. Hyenas are able to steal the whole prey and could even kill a male lion. And how i can forget it.... a lion pride arrives... you have no chance. Also as i pointed out nearly every heavy lions were nomadic ones(small coalition) or solitary ones(Mount Kenya Lion). But fact is that most nonterretorial males didnt make it as reported by Rob to me, which is pretty understandable based on the infos he shared with me. (I know boldchamp from the name but i dont know what you discussed with him. I wasnt active in those old forums and i dont have acess to them.)

Also regarding that i found this study as well. Its more or less again confirming it.

Quote:https://www.researchgate.net/publication...Strategies

Average digestible energy intakes (DEI) of individual cats are plotted against body mass in Figure 3. A large difference in energy intakes of lions and tigers was evident. For example, the DEI of large male lions was only about half that of the similarly sized male Bengal X Siberian tigers. The natural logarithm (In) of digestible energy intake was plotted against In body mass to examine the scaling of energy intake to body mass (Figure 4). All cats did not appear to follow the same scaling relationship. For example, lions and young clouded leopards appeared to fall on the predicted line that represents extrapolation of the maintenance energy requirements of domestic cats, but cheetahs, Sumatran tigers and Bengal X Siberian tigers had considerably higher energy intakes.

The comparison(which is based on a large sample) of solitary lions and pride lions is enough. Even more so when you compare africa and india, which are in terms of "action" pretty different (at least nowadays, idk how it was in the past).

The really good data comes from Sunquist. The female tigers alone consumed around 16 kg per day and the males 19 kg and that in several days and not in one day observation. Compare that to Smuts pride males (not the calculated MDR but the estimated food intake based on the observation) and it becomes clear. Even if there are some explanations here and there a difference of 9.4 kg vs 19 k shows it. A tiger is basically a solitary/nomadic lion with less difficulties. 

For me the main study for this was the comparison between nonterretorial lions and terretorial lions. Also again beside thats nonterretorial ones killed larger preys which is beside the "pride factor" also important.

I dont have the time now to answer the other posts. Will do it later. Reply