WildFact
›
Information Section
›
Terrestrial Wild Animals
›
Wild Cats
›
Jaguar
Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars
Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars
|
Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars
|
 (12-19-2020, 03:17 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote: 3 Pantanal males captured by Panthera. Thanks for the information DJ. M15 is a very compact and robust individual, reminds of Brutus from Caiman Ecological Refuge. A couple of things that need to be clarified about the table, this is the last time that I'm addressing this because the level of scrutiny and the accusations that the same crew of people on the same site likes to throw around are getting tired. I've never seen people so committed to questioning every single detail of the weights compilation of species (not lions or tigers even, for that regard), and it's driven by nothing other than an agenda to reduce the sizes of jaguars at any cost because these people refuse to move away from the orthodox views that they seldom surpass 100 kg in weight, using the data of Almeida as Biblical to back up their accusations. @Pckts, I know you're spending a lot of time trying to clear the air and explain each and every single accusation being thrown our way with the table, but at some point these people need to be left alone to bathe in their ignorance and self-perceived notions of grandiosity. Those three same individuals (you know who they are) are active on or at least possess an account and could easily come to this thread to debate us. Instead, they resort to posting on their beloved site where they will face no form of opposition, where the audience is significantly younger and more easily impressionable, and where there are very clear biases against the jaguar for whatever reason. If they have a problem with our work, they can come here and express themselves, otherwise, I don't think it's appropriate to give their accusations any form of validation by engaging with them over that platform. Every time there is a new weight provided to us, or it's publicized by one of the organizations that track jaguars, and said weight surpasses the approved opinion of what a Pantanal jaguar should weight according to these people, their go-to excuse is to say that the jaguar was "gorged", or showed massive amounts of stomach content. Right now the jaguars Brutos, Matheus, Shaka, Sandro, and Yapu are the main targets for these accusations. Let's go over them one by one: Brutos weighed 110 kg in his first capture and later 120 kg a month later, certainly that gain in weight was significant within the period of time it was recaptured, but high spikes like that are perfectly normal to occur when felids are going through their developmental peak stage or starting to through the beginning of their prime years (at around 4 years of age). Brutos did show some level of stomach content during his second capture as his belly dropped low, but at the same time, his midsection viewed from a horizontal perspective was flat. He was not "gorged", nor did he have 10 kg - nearly a tenth of his body mass - stored in his stomach, perhaps around 5 kg would be more appropriate. Here he is:  *This image is copyright of its original author The next one is Matheus, this is the only jaguar from the aforementioned list where I think there is some validity to questioning his weight, only because the value of 121 kg was published at the same that the value of 134 kg was during his second capture. During his initial capture, the weight of 134 kg was laid out clearly by the organization:  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author I want to be very clear here, that any level of stomach content Matheus might have presented during that capture was minimal. Compared to Brutos, his belly hangs lower and there is no bulge or protuberance in his midsection whatsoever. In his second capture, and this is the contested one, two weights were provided: One was 121 kg, which was posted on the Oncas do Rio Negro's IG, but was later removed from the caption. Thankfully one can still find it on Facebook:  *This image is copyright of its original author Thamy Moreira, on the far right of the line of people, stated on her page after posting about the capture that this jaguar had weighed 134 kg:  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author Compared with his initial capture, in the second one Matheus does show the signs of a belly with content in it, particularly because seen from a horizontal perspective there is a minor bump. Again, he was not gorged, there was content nonetheless. The question is, why are there two weights being claimed for the same specimen, on the same capture? We do not know for now, I'm trying to contact them directly to get an answer to this question once and for all. For now, because the value of 134 kg was laid out clearly in his initial capture, and we have one of the biologists present in his second capture reiterating that weight, whereas the second one was removed from the IG caption, it's obvious which one holds more grounds, and as such we will maintain the 134 kg value unless it's clarified by the organization that a different value was the appropriate one. In regards to Shaka, publicly Oncafari has never made any mention of him weighing 118 kg empty belly. I've gone over this already, but when the question was posed to Eduard Fragoso, he answered it with an ambiguous "yeah", as the question was posed in a manner that implied he was empty on his second capture of 118 kg. When the Oncafari team sent me the table from their entire collection of weights, the value shown for Shaka remained at 131 kg. The Oncafari team is very meticulous about which values to publicized, and I've talked about that before with the case of Felino. Once again, unless specified otherwise and in a clear form that Shaka was "gorged" during his initial capture, the official value of 131 kg has standing and is the one that will remain on our side, period. In regards to Sandro, initially when his capture was publicized the first thing we did here was to attempt to get an estimation of how much stomach content he had to deduct from the value of 130 kg that Gustavo gave me. But later Gustavo posted on his profile that Sandro in fact weighed more than 130 kg:  *This image is copyright of its original author "He was spotted and weighed more than 130 kg" Based on that claim, DJ reached out to him to know if the value of 130 kg posted for him was already adjusted to stomach content since he himself claimed he weighed more than that. Similar to the question posed to Edu, Gustavo had an ambiguous answer, which was to be expected since he is a photographer and not a biologist, but later, the official page of Reprocon ratified the 130 kg value when someone asked how much the jaguar weighed:  *This image is copyright of its original author It doesn't take a genius to realize that if this particular jaguar weighed more than 130 kg and likely topped out the scale, while the official value given for him is lower than his total one, hence the team responsible for his capture likely gave an estimation of his weight on an empty stomach. I will say it once, his total weight was more than 130 kg. Lastly, there is the case with Yapu. I'll make this one short, the weights of 102 kg and 110 kg were both publicized by Oncas do Rio Negro on the same capture, clearly one of the two has to be incorrect. Once again I have reached out to them and will wait on an answer to see which one is the correct one, and according to their answer, the table will be adjusted. A couple of more notes, the males captured in Fazenda Sao Bento were captured in Mato Grosso do Sul, i.e. the SOUTHERN Pantanal, not the northern area. It's funny to see such a preposterous individual so desperate to try to prove us wrong that he will make such a confident claim and be so wrong in the process. Joker was captured again this year, this time his weight could not be directly gathered by the Oncafari team because he was so heavy that they could not lift him up the ground. From Fragoso himself:  *This image is copyright of its original author Therefore, the estimate that he weighs more than 140 kg comes from one of the most prestigious biologist teams in regards to jaguar conservation and is 100% reliable. Especially since they have experience weighing a jaguar that approached the 140 kg mark (Robusto) and they saw firsthand how much bigger and heavier Joker was from him. Secondly, Edu was fast to say that Sombra weighed 120 kg empty, which means that the Oncafari team takes each variable from the state in which the jaguars are capture to give the most accurate weight possible. Lastly, I have to say that I'm very proud of the work done so far in the compilation of this data, regardless of how angry it makes a couple of people who can't fathom seeing jaguars grown this much bigger than leopards. The team of biologists who have seen our work and collaborated with us values it as well, and as long as they approve of it, we have nothing to justify to individuals who have a clear agenda laid out based on their own personal biases. As I've said before, regardless of how much they continue barking on the other platform, unless they come here to challenge our work, we should let them say whatever they want, there is nothing for us to prove to them. |
| Users browsing this thread: |
| 10 Guest(s) |