The Great Apes

[The Panther]

(01-16-2020, 08:29 PM)Pantherinae Wrote:

(01-16-2020, 12:59 PM)The Panther Wrote:

(01-16-2020, 11:11 AM)Shadow Wrote:

(01-16-2020, 10:11 AM)The Panther Wrote:

(01-16-2020, 03:42 AM)Shadow Wrote: I wrote to Virunga Park in Congo and asked if they have some recent information about weights/sizes of gorillas.

Here is one quote:

"About all the questions you have asked, we do not have recent research done yet but what i have seen my self as a silver back gorilla, it was weighing 199 kgs, according to the research that was recently conducted by then on the same gorilla, it was indeed huge and its height am not sure, but it was not tall, what i know it was huge huge and huge. "


I might get some more information tomorrow at some time if lucky, but when I told about it, that participating to discussions about gorillas, I was asked to share this also here:


"Since you discuss a lot about life style of gorillas, add this issue on your table for further discussion https://www.virungaparkcongo.com/information/why-are-gorillas-poached/

You can actually share the link with your friends, people living nearby the park, have remained hostile to the gorillas, i really don't know what do to these people;"


That problem reminded me about this video, it´s 10 years old but how much is changed really in that time....

That's interesting. Did they say his name and how old he was? Because old silverbacks are generally the largest silverbacks, and I don't think I've ever heard of an old established silverback ever being sedated for research or even medication, likely due to them normally having large groups around them at all times, though straying females or younger gorillas (including blackback males) seem fair game. Solitary silverbacks are the most likely to be sedated, they're normally the least established silverbacks of the park, with few exceptions.

And of course 199 kg is indeed a large animal in general especially compared to a normal human, but I don't think it represents anywhere near the largest of Eastern gorillas, which are normally old males. Old males are in the minority, due to how long they lived, so it's quite likely their weights have never been taken in the Virungas, Bwindi or Kahuzi Biega. They are proof of just how big an Eastern gorilla gets if it lives long enough. The most likely candidates of these measurements are males in their 20's or younger, due to how common they are and the more likely chances of them being solitary. Their late 20's is likely when they start getting really big, but that's if they live to their late 20's, let alone 48 years of age like the big Guhonda male.

So age is really important when talking about Eastern gorilla sizes. Western gorillas however seem to have a more constant size range regardless of age group and are generally smaller than Eastern gorillas.

I asked about biggest gorillas they know and I mentioned for instance Guhonda. And I asked if they have any weights and also if they have some educated guesses from professional people who are there working with these gorillas.

That first reply wasn´t surprising, because 199 kg gorilla for has to be huge, all available and reliable information after all give average weights clearly under 200 kg for males. Since estimations here have been lately much more than known biggest reliable weights, I thought that it´s good to ask from people who should know and maybe get something better than estimations from photos. Which is after all very unreliable way to make estimations, it´s like lottery. I´m sure, that if showing certain photos of for instance tigers, which weight under 200 kg and showing to people who don´t know which tiger, they would give estimations like 250-300 kg. Just because they can look from certain angles absolutely massive. 

Anyway I might get more information today, the person who replied said, that trying to find out more this morning from other people working there.

Sorry for another long comment, please be patient with me.
The thing is I'm not just using random pictures, nor am I making estimates out of thin air. My estimates were based on comparisons I made with the largest captive males on record, males that weighed 280 kg and 295 kg, so these weren't some random captive gorillas. I used to be like you, I used to doubt that gorillas could get very big and relied solely on scarce information on their size, but then I compared the biggest wild males to Samson a 295 kg captive Western gorilla, and I was shocked to see how similar those males were in body type to Samson. Though I do believe Samson was still a good amount heavier, he just wasn't significantly larger than them in bulk, and I made sure to use images of the gorillas in similar body positions so that the comparison works better. The other captive gorilla I used was M'bongo, he was actually a rare captive Eastern gorilla and he weighed over 280 kg at under 20 years of age. The image I used specifically was when he was a little bit smaller at 273 kg, and it amazed me just how close the biggest males especially Guhonda was to his body type, a lot closer than Samson. So again I made sure to use images of them in similar body positions, it wasn't like one was laying down and the other was sitting up or anything. I did two comparisons a few pages or so ago, so they're still here.

Like I said in my other comment, I understand that people make mistakes when estimating, including when using random pictures. That's why I chose to give them a size range instead of a definitive weight, because definitive weights are a lot harder to estimate and require an actual measurement. So seeing how similar their builds are to these 280 to 295 kg captive males, I was able to estimate their size range from 250 to 265 kg, probably even around 270 kg at the most. So these weights are for the absolute biggest Eastern gorillas, mainly the old males who are a minority compared to most of the males, who are still young and in their prime.

The weights given for Guhonda are most likely estimates without comparisons, so I tend to take such estimates with a grain of salt, whether it's high or low. I doubt they've ever weighed him and I doubt they would anytime soon, after all, dominant males especially dominant old males are the least likely to ever get sedated for research or medical reasons. Seeing how varied the estimations are for Guhonda, I seriously doubt you'll get anything conclusive from anyone. Now, I'm not saying my estimates are the absolute truth, but at least I had something to compare with, so that I could make sure my estimates were close to the truth rather than something from 

the Vest African lowland gorilla named Samson, which zoo did he come from? 
I know they had one in Givskud ZOO in Denmark named Samson.

This Samson is from the Milwaukee county zoo, in the US. Reply