The Great Apes

[The Panther]

(02-10-2020, 12:24 AM)GuateGojira Wrote:

(01-28-2020, 07:50 PM)The Panther Wrote: @GuateGojira
What did you expect him to look like there? The photo with the man in that position doesn't prove he weighs less than 250 kg, because all you see is his back not his entire body. Huge gorillas are mainly massive in stomach and chest girth, not just their back. That photo with the man gives a good idea of how tall Guhonda is at the shoulder but not his weight. Now, if you were expecting him to look a lot wider than that at over 250 kg, then you need to know that even the 296 kg Samson didn't look extremely wide for a near 300 kg gorilla, in fact even near 300 kg humans can look a lot wider than him. Samson was mainly massive in girth like I mentioned before, so it shows gorillas don't really grow extremely wide after significant weight gain but do so in girth. So that picture doesn't prove anything, unless you were expecting something greater from that position.

The problem with the gas argument is that there's no proof that intestinal gas adds much to their size, and no their bellies don't go flat. So you can't act like that's the main reason for their bulk, when it's most likely due to decades of living that lifestyle. So if what you said was true, then many wild males would look as big as Guhonda or close, yet only some males are similar to him and they just happen to be old and experienced males just like him.

I do believe mountain gorillas might have a 'slimmer period', mainly after leaving the Hagenia forest for the bamboo zone, which happens during the bamboo shoots season. In the bamboo zone they eat less varied food at smaller quantities than their Hagenia home, in fact bamboo shoots apparently make up to 90% of their diet during this season. https://gorillafund.org/what-do-gorillas...no-bamboo/. So they likely get a bit slimmer after spending the season in this zone, and regain their size in the Hagenia forests. There is also another type of area that has less food variety, they would go to the alpine tundra and mainly feed on the Senecio plants, but it seems less favored than the bamboo shoots.

I think that you missunderstand my point. I am not saying that the gorillas weight "more than" or "less than". What I try to explain with this "gas issue" is that the big bellies of the gorillas are inflated, which is a fact, and that make them to look "heavier". In few words, if it is very hard to guess the weights from carnivores, actually it is even harder for herbivores with huge bellies. We don't know its musculature and the density of the bones, also the large hair make them to look even "bigger" from what they are.

So, we can guess that those male gorillas are of 250-300 kg but is only a guess, not based in actual facts or measurements. For the moment, most of the experts state that a male gorilla between 190 - 200 kg is allready a big one and the maximum actualy recorded (from a small sample, to be fair) is of about 220 kg. This male Guhonda looks large, but the more I investigate in the gorillas body masses actually recorded, the more I doubth that this large male is over the 230 kg and 250 kg seems too doubthfull at this moment. Also, comparing captive vs wild animals can create a lot of confusion, it happens with the big cats so I don't doubth that the same may happen with gorillas. At the end is just an opinion, but based in measurements and weights that we actually have.

I understand you're going by what's been recorded, but we shouldn't assume that it's very unlikely for males to go beyond 220 kg (485 lbs) simply because a small sample ended at that weight. Who's knows if that weight even represents the absolute biggest individuals in the region, especially considering how low samples are in general. This is why I chose to compare with captive males that have been weighed, so that it makes estimating easier. I personally doubt wild males like Guhonda or Kwitonda could ever weigh 300 kg (660 lbs), in fact my estimates only end at 250 to 265 kg (551 to 584 lbs) at max based on comparisons, so anything much more than that to me is very unlikely. 

Again, the issue with the intestinal gas is that I've not found proof it adds much to their bulk other than some bloating, nor do mountain gorillas get flat stomachs overnight either. Being large herbivores, they eat huge quantities of vegetation daily, in fact, male mountain gorillas are said to eat up to 75 lbs (34 kg) of vegetation daily. https://www.neprimateconservancy.org/mou...rilla.html
They literally spend hours everyday sitting and foraging, this habit spans decades of a silverback's life from 13 to 35 or 45 years of age, to even Guhonda's age at 48. So it should be very likely for most males to have gained a significant amount of weight by the age of 30. The funny thing is that the Burger eating 296 kg Samson managed to reach that weight only in his 20's, which is actually a lot earlier than I expect wild mountain gorillas to reach their maximum weight, so it's quite obvious that his diet sped up his weight gain by a lot.

I believe based on their lifestyle, that's it's possible they gain 90 to 104 kg (200 to 230 lbs) by the time they reach the age of 35+, which is over 22 years after they've become silverbacks. Considering how gluttonous humans can gain more weight than that within only 10 years, I don't see why it should be a problem for silverback mountain gorillas to gain over 100 kg within 20 something years. All that vegetation should amount to something great in all that time. Reply