Wolf (Canis lupus)

[Shadow]

(02-10-2019, 05:27 AM)smedz Wrote:

(02-10-2019, 05:19 AM)Shadow Wrote:

(02-10-2019, 04:48 AM)smedz Wrote:

(02-10-2019, 04:21 AM)Shadow Wrote:

(02-10-2019, 03:28 AM)smedz Wrote: Wolves are amazing predators, even able to bring down elk on their own. But there is one place where they themselves are hunted, the Russian Far East. Here, Amur tigers have hunted wolves to the point where wolf numbers are low, that brings up the question, how did wolves survive the Pleistocene age in North America? Arctodus were too big and dangerous to handle, Dire Wolves also lived in packs and were larger and more powerful than grey wolves. Smilodon, Homotherium, and American Lions we're powerful big cats, and likely social. Let's take a look at wolf behaviour today, that'll help. 

1. Grey Wolves hunt in packs, in the open plains they can get pretty big, numbering in the 30's I think. Not only does that help with hunting, but that would have meant multiple eyes, ears, and noses on the alert for danger back in the Ice Age. 

2. They seem to like hunting during the day, which would have helped them avoid larger predators, but analysis of the brain and eye structure of Homotherium suggest that animal was a diurnal hunter too. Plus, Homotherium was definitely a social hunter, so these animals would have been avoided by wolves. 

3. Prey selection, the larger predators hunted the larger animals like bison while grey wolves hunted things like deer and elk, so choosing different prey would have been helpful in avoiding competition with their enemies.

Can you tell, that to what studies have you read to make your conclusions? For instance where is said, that Amur tigers would have hunted wolves so much, that number is low as only possible explanation? To what is based idea, that wolves would like to hunt during day? Do you think, that they don´t hunt at nighttime? Then again prey selection is one thing, which is interesting. Can you give some sources?

1. The second episode of Age of Big Cats, you can find that on YouTube. 
2. Dire wolf episode from Prehistoric hunters 
3. Looked at the behaviour of modern wolves, African Wild Dogs, and Dholes (avoiding competition is why the other two hunt during the day) also from what the Kratts said about wolves in a different show.  
4. Tigers and wolves right here. 

Yes, there is one hypothesis, that tigers hunt wolves more, than those was it four cases, which have been observed. But then there is also that possibility, that wolves move away. So it is not so clear, that there would be masses of dead wolves in the woods. When tigers vanish, wolves are quickly all over again. For sure there are more killed wolves than 4, but there we are again in somewhat grey area.

Then what comes to wolves hunting times, wolves do move a lot during times, when not so much light, late evening and nights. Of course less footage from night times, but that is same with lions and tigers for instance, both are very active animals in night time, still all hunting footage are from daytime. It still doesn´t change it, that most activities happen in times, when there are no-one filming.

What comes to prey selection, also in that report from far east is told, that they prey same animals a lot, tigers and wolves. Also same bigger ones.

So when looking at answers, it takes some time. Far east of Russia is interesting place, but even there is still work to do for researchers. As Peter said, they have had to adjust some of their opinions before and I wouldn´t be surprised if that would happen if future too. Wolf tiger interaction is one interesting thing, how much there is killing and how much wolves just give away space without fighting, when noticing tiger nearby.

Yes, but with times, you must keep in mind, grey wolves weren't the biggest kids on the block, and I can guarantee you that quite a few of the predators hunted at night, so back then, night hunting on the plains wasn't an option, but with those animals gone, now they can hunt at night all they want. Kind of like with cougars, sort of. In North America, they rarely leave spots with trees to avoid being caught out in the open by wolves. But in the open spaces of the Andes, cougars can hunt in the open country all they want because they literally have no competition. I know that's with locations, but do you see where I'm going with this?

No, they weren´t but they survived to modern days, so it looks like there was no hunting in extinction back then. Competition of course, but when we look at species surviving to modern days, we can see which ones were winners in that competition in the end. I don´t see any reason why wolves couldn´t have moved and hunted there in the nighttime also back then. Hyenas are there with lions at nights all the time. Both do just fine. Reply