Size comparisons

[Shadow]

(04-23-2019, 03:42 PM)Luipaard Wrote:

(04-23-2019, 03:30 PM)Shadow Wrote:

(04-23-2019, 03:13 PM)Luipaard Wrote:

(04-23-2019, 02:12 PM)Shadow Wrote: While jaguar and leopard is in reality no contest, jaguars are simply bigger, I find puma - leopard situation much more interesting. In many occasions it is said, that puma is nro 5 what comes to sizes of big cats, but then again when looking at weights mentioned in many sites and articles it looks like that leopards are after all smaller(?). For instance in this article is said, that male pumas can weight 250 lbs and even more.

https://sciencing.com/differences-puma-cougar-mountain-lion-8514376.html

It would be interesting to know, that to what is based claim, that leopards would be bigger if this article has valid information. After all for male leopard 90 kg is on upper limit when looking overall information about them.

Quote:While jaguar and leopard is in reality no contest, jaguars are simply bigger, I find puma - leopard situation much more interesting

These three big cats overlap in size.

Mature adult male jaguar from the Amazon (n1) 
Length: 134.5cm 
Head: 63.5cm 
Neck: 55.9cm 
Chest: 92.1cm 

Adult female jaguars from the Pantanal (unspecified number) 
Length: 133.4cm (n4) 
Head: 60.5cm 
Neck: 54.5cm 
Chest: 91.4cm

Mature Adult male leopards from South Africa (n4) 
Length: 130.5cm 
Head: 59.1cm 
Neck: 58.4cm 
Chest: 86.6cm 

Adult male cougars from Canada (n7) 
Length: 139cm (probably over curves, therefore around 129cm straight) 
Head: 52cm 
Neck: 43cm 
Chest: 81cm

Bear in mind that we're comparing 2 larger jaguar subspecies and a large cougar subspecies with a mediocre leopard subspecies. A Persian or Central African male leopard would come out on top. Probably rivaling an average Pantanal male jaguar.



Also, here's a picture of a male leopard from Taï national park in Ivory Coast, estimated at 3-5 years old.

*This image is copyright of its original author

He was captured and weighed 56kg. He had a 54cm neck girth, and measured 138cm in body length (probably over the curves). 

Although nothing extraordinary in overall size, his neck girth is impressive for his size and suggests his head girth would've easily been around 56cm or more. For comparison, the average measurements of 5 mature adult male jaguars captured by Rabinowitz in Belize were: 

Weight:55.8kg
Body length: 133.6cm
Head girth: 56.4cm

So this leopards proportions appear similar to male jaguars of equal size.girth. So his proportions appear similar to male jaguars of equal size.

I am not interested about overlapping in this, but about leopards and pumas. Jaguars are clearly bigger than these two and that is common knowledge.

But when we are talking about leopards and pumas, there isn´t only overlapping, smallest and biggest are all in about same sizes. But then again there are in many places mentioned weights of pumas, which look like to be a bit heavier than leopards.

Your agenda with leopards compared to jaguars is quite worn out. Everyone knows, that leopards aren´t gaining same weights as big jaguars and that is the reason why jaguars have status to be the third largest big cat in the world. It is no contest and you just waste your time if you try to convince someone here to think otherwise. 

Someone has said somewhere, choose your battles. So if you want to debate about something and hope to be successful, it is not good to pick up hopeless case :)

Quote:I am not interested about overlapping in this, but about leopards and pumas. Jaguars are clearly bigger than these two and that is common knowledge.

I never said otherwise. But you ignoring or not bothering that there is overlapping between them is up to you.

Quote:But when we are talking about leopards and pumas, there isn´t only overlapping, smallest and biggest are all in about same sizes. But then again there are in many places mentioned weights of pumas, which look like to be a bit heavier than leopards.

Take another look at the measurements I just shared. The leopard has clearly a far bigger skull and massive neck compared to the cougar. Overall the cougar is differently proportioned than the 2 pantherine cats. The difference in neck and chest girth is also indicated by a few other samples and this is also the impression you get from photographs, cougars of either sex generally do not appear as compact in build as jaguars and male leopards which often appear more deep chested and with a more massive head/neck area. Instead, the cougar appears to be a leggier animal with more of its weight probably coming from the limbs which often do look quite muscular.

Quote:Your agenda with leopards compared to jaguars is quite worn out. Everyone knows, that leopards aren´t gaining same weights as big jaguars and that is the reason why jaguars have status to be the third largest big cat in the world.

Again, I never said otherwise. Also my agenda? All I do is show people with PROOF that there is overlapping. The jaguar is the bigger overall which is indeed why it's the third largest cat.

Quote:It is no contest and you just waste your time if you try to convince someone here to think otherwise. Someone has said somewhere, choose your battles. So if you want to debate about something and hope to be successful, it is not good to pick up hopeless case :)

It's not even a debate. It's a FACT. Also, I don't have to convince anyone. I'm just glad that there's a forum where I can share this knowledge. Too bad you're being hostile towards me.

One has bigger skull, another longer legs..... skull measurements when comparing different species are one detail, not telling what is overall situation. So when you look at weights of animals, you get best overall indicator. You can have side by side a jaguar and leopard about same shoulder height, still as for instance wolverine explained here earlier, jaguars in reality look like two leopards in size because so much more robust.

But to make it more clear, I wonder which one is really larger big cat, leopard or puma, when we compare average weights and weights of the biggest individuals? It has been interesting to notice, that there seem to be more mentionings about pumas weighing 100+ kg.

So is leopard really 4th largest big cat if we take puma in comparison? I find it interesting if pumas really are able to produce more big individuals than leopards. Reply