Login

Pckts · 05-14-2019, 09:43 PM

(05-14-2019, 11:18 AM)Luipaard Wrote:
(05-13-2019, 11:42 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(09-10-2016, 02:42 PM)Pckts Wrote: Notes from shaji discussion

His opinions below:

Tigers are larger than lions.
Shivaji or Waghdoh are the largest tigers he's seen
Sri Lanken leopards are not the largest leopards, African leopards are.
Believes ustaad shouldn't have been removed
Asiatic lions are not exciting, they are very tame compared to their African counterparts due to the fd proceedures with them.
Munna is a normal sized tiger but very mellow with tourists.
Ranthambhore males aren't any larger than any other males he's seen.
He's photographed polar bears and Jaguars in the pantanal as well.
Went to the Sunderbans but couldn't photograph a tiger, it's really rare. Compared it to a 1/500 chance
The largest tigers he's seen are from Tadoba (Shivaji, wagdoh)

@~~Luipaard~~
This was back when I believed Sri Lankan Leopards were possibly the Largest Leopards as well, but through discussions like this one and data analysis I've obviously come to a very different conclusion.

Well I myself have never said that Sri Lankan leopards were the biggest subspecies; they're one of the larger ones alongside the Persian leopard and rainforest leopard. Like I've mentioned before, they're basically a larger version of Indian leopards.

Persian leopards and rainforest leopards are hands down the largest of them all. Visual comparisons and skull measurements prove that. For example, large males from South Africa struggle to reach the average skull size of a Central African male...

Actually I was the one who stated that and I also stated that you'd be surprised as to how they actually compare to Indian Leopards, I've heard they are no larger.

Considering Larger Skulls have came out of C. and E. Africa, I disagree that Persians and Rainforest Leopards are the "largest hands down."
Persians are definitely the Longest but their highest weights and skulls have been matched by African Leoapards.
But overall if you're comparing all of African Leopard's to Persian's then yes, Persians should be the largest subspecies.

But in regards to Aberdare Leopards, I think there could be something there.
Not due to the lack of Lion presence, since Lions are still found there and existing in much higher numbers in the past.
"The Kenya Wildlife Service has culled about 200 lions from the Aberdare range to protect the rare bongo species, which is threatened with extinction.
The Bongo population has dropped to just about 100 in the Aberdares, alarming conservationists.
The bongo is a rare, spiral horned antelope with a coat that is bright red with narrow cream stripes.
The Nation was unable to verify the exact number of lions so far culled or relocated. Sources put the figure at between 100 and 200.
The Aberdare National Park's chief warden, Mr Paul Gathitu, and the local head of research and planning, Mr Joseph Ruhiu, declined to comment. They referred the Nation to the KWS Headquarters."
https://www.nation.co.ke/news/1056-370516-l80xpxz/index.html

But more so due to the fact that Aberdare has rich volcanic soil, higher elevation, large prey biomass, cooler temps with heavy rain and usually some rain year round but with a huge variation of Ungulates and even the 2nd largest population of Black Rhinos.

The other place that matches these characteristics... Ngorongoro Crater.
And no surprise, the herbivores there are larger since they are able to feed of nutrient rich volcanic soil fed plants, the lions are heavier with a denser mane, the herds stay there year round and Lions prides live relatively close to one another.
Sri Lanka, Congo Basin nor Iran check all of those boxes.

"Due to its high altitude, the park is very rainy and misty, with roads that become impassable during the wet season."

"The rich, red volcanic soil provides excellent growing conditions for the indigenous forest, and lies in stark contrast to both the forest and the mountain's rugged and beautiful peaks."

"There are 60km (37 miles) of primary roads and 396km (246 miles) of secondary roads, but they all become virtually impassable during the rainy season, which lasts from March to May, and to a lesser degree, from October to December. There is still some rainfall and mist year-round due to the high altitude of Aberdare."

Extreme conditions make up extreme examples, you need many different conditions to occur to create a unique individual and picking one piece of a larger pie doesn't tell the entire story.

"A big male leopard shot in the Aberdare mountains of Kenya in 1968. The photo is from the book, "Shoot Straight and Stay Alive" by professional hunter Fred Bartlett. The skull of this leopard is listed in the Rowland Ward Records, measuring 273mm long and 178mm wide (17.75 inch total score). Bartlett said this was one of the biggest leopards he had seen in the mountain forests of Kenya with a heavily built body, he estimated its weight at 200 to 220lbs. Bartlett appears to be a reliable source and this was probably a genuine 180lb+ leopard. Any leopard with a skull measuring 17 inches or more should be considered huge.

As mentioned before, the leopards of the Rift Valley highland forests in East Africa were highly prized by trophy hunters. Of the leopard populations for which some appreciable data on weights has historically been recorded (ie. East/Southern Africa and India) these East African mountain leopards are IMO the most impressive. Apart from Iran where a few 200lb leopards have now been recorded most genuine 200lbers recorded historically have come from the highland forests of East Africa. The heaviest being a 212lb leopard with a 18.76 inch skull shot on Mt Kenya in 1964 which is probably the heaviest leopard reliably recorded in my opinion. PH Hamilton who carried out much research on leopards in Kenya gives a weight range for male highland forest leopards in the country as 60-95kg, the upper limit probably being derived from this specimen."