Felids Interactions - Intraspecific Conflicts

[Shadow]

(11-30-2019, 07:04 AM)Rishi Wrote:

(11-29-2019, 11:49 PM)Shadow Wrote:

(11-29-2019, 11:28 PM)Rishi Wrote: Both yours & @Rage2277's video are classic examples of submissive & defensive posturing in tigers that I was trying to convey. He & she crounches with head lowered till the last moment until the aggressor lunges in & then rolls over to claw off the assault by flailing with all four... Following which kept lying with claws raised threatening until attacker backed away.

Here's the thing. I am 99.99% sure that you won't ever find cats rolling on their backs in submission, unless there is a threat of an imminent physical assault that needs to be fought off, like in both above cases. They'll always bow or crounch.

And this is also a good example how differently same thing can be seen and taken. I don´t see any contradiction in it, that mentioning rolling on back as a submissive gesture. The one feeling to have upper hand doesn´t go on his back like the one showing submission. It´s done in a bit different way than for instance dogs and wolves do, but the same principle. You want to find a submissive big cat, watch which one lays down and goes on his/hers back, there he/she is.

(11-30-2019, 04:43 AM)Dennis Wrote:

(11-29-2019, 11:28 PM)Rishi Wrote: Both yours & @Rage2277's video are classic examples of submissive & defensive posturing in tigers that I was trying to convey. He & she crounches with head lowered till the last moment until the aggressor lunges in & then rolls over to claw off the assault by flailing with all four... Following which kept lying with claws raised threatening until attacker backed away.

Here's the thing. I am 99.99% sure that you won't ever find cats rolling on their backs in submission, unless there is a threat of an imminent physical assault that needs to be fought off, like in both above cases. They'll always bow or crounch.

I am pretty sure crouching is a defensive position, and lowering the head is definitely far from submission. There are even videos of tigers crouching down and lowering heads towards humans, and lowering the head seems to be a very common cat behavior when fighting. One source states lowering the head is aggression, not submission.

Yes not always, nor a simple one-liner... often the crouching individual is more aggressive & lashing out. It's more a posturing of non-aggression than actual defensive stance. I'd said what I had to in #357. 

Here's the Dublin zoo tigress being bullied again. 

Against wild tigress with mate but no actual aggression.

Quote:...you won't ever find cats rolling on their backs, unless there is a threat of an imminent physical assault that needs to be fought off...

Buuuuuuuut, there are indeed cases where turning over is taken as cue by the winner.

I didn´t now quite get what you tried to say to me, when you quoted my posting. Was there something on some video maybe? Reply