Felids Interactions - Intraspecific Conflicts

[Shadow]

(11-29-2019, 11:28 PM)Rishi Wrote:

Quote:Edit: I just noticed, that it was a video in that posting, not a photo only. Pity that it wasn´t possible to see longer how that situation developed.

(11-29-2019, 11:21 PM)Shadow Wrote:

(11-29-2019, 11:02 PM)Rishi Wrote: That's more of a defensive threatening than being submissive... And interspecific conflict besides. They are usually plenty interested at the begining. But the leopard's claws often tend to change their minds.
Submitting is more of an intraspecific thing though, among who understands each other's body language.

Great footage by the way, never seen a leopard sitting in open almost causally surrounded by whole lion pride. Please post a copy in the interspecific thread!

Here is one video of tigers. This is also about it, that how do different people see things. For instance in this video it´s clear which tiger is submissive and which is dominant, imo. And it´s submissive tiger who lay down and spend time on his back too. 

Yes, it can be said, that it´s defending himself, that is self-evident. But it also show all the time submission. Submission isn´t same as wish to die. While some animals can roll on back in total submission, others can show submission same way, but keeping guard up, ready to fight if have to. 

I do agree with people thinking, that rolling on back is submissive gesture also among big cats, just not as clear as for instance among dogs. But in this video I see a very submissive tiger meeting dominant one.

Both yours & @Rage2277's video are classic examples of submissive & defensive posturing in tigers that I was trying to convey. He & she crounches with head lowered till the last moment until the aggressor lunges in & then rolls over to claw off the assault by flailing with all four... Following which kept lying with claws raised threatening until attacker backed away.

Here's the thing. I am 99.99% sure that you won't ever find cats rolling on their backs in submission, unless there is a threat of an imminent physical assault that needs to be fought off, like in both above cases. They'll always bow or crounch.

And this is also a good example how differently same thing can be seen and taken. I don´t see any contradiction in it, that mentioning rolling on back as a submissive gesture. The one feeling to have upper hand doesn´t go on his back like the one showing submission. It´s done in a bit different way than for instance dogs and wolves do, but the same principle. You want to find a submissive big cat, watch which one lays down and goes on his/hers back, there he/she is.

Which one wins the fight if it goes to the bitter end is then another thing. Maybe we have here a disagreement then, because different ways to approach this matter.  In things like this there are always different opinions, that´s how it is, no matter what. Reply