Desert Lions

[peter]

(11-05-2020, 08:46 PM)BA0701 Wrote:

(11-05-2020, 04:13 AM)peter Wrote:

(11-04-2020, 08:52 PM)Lycaon Wrote: Robust forearms.

Yes, robust all the way. And he isn't the only one in that part of Africa. Everything I have says lions in the western part of southern Africa could be the largest (at the level of averages). Maybe deserts and their fringes are not as inproductive as many think.

In 2015, I saw an interesting documentary about desert lions. This year, a follow-up was broadcasted on ARTE, a European channel that often broadcasts good documentaries about wild animals. The 5 young males seen in the first (2015) documentary also featured in the second documentary. The coalition did very well. That is, until they took a donkey. Only 1 of them survived the retaliation. A bloody shame. 

The second documentary is one of the best I saw on desert lions. See if you can find it.  

Here's the link to the 2015 documentary. No commercials. It's in German:  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzfiHGzgBzI

I am unable to watch that video, unfortunately it appears it is blocked in my country.

However, that is very interesting about the desert lions though. I have always been of the impression that the lions in the Ngorongoro Crater appear to be the largest, they always look very thick and powerful. Perhaps it is their very large manes that give this impression. Now I need to go out and actually look into the measured averages of these two groups. 

It is always incredibly sad when lions are killed by man for the crime of being lions.

I agree Crater lions seem to be both large and thick-set, but reliable information about their size isn't there. This is not true for lions in the western part of southern Africa. As far as I can see, they could top the table. 

It's speculation all the way, but Crater lions could compare to Kaziranga tigers. Photographs, videos and descriptions of those who had the opportunity to compare them them to tigers living in other regions suggest Kaziranga tigers are both big and large-skulled. Many of those interested in tigers think they could top the table, but, like in Crater lions, there's no reliable information about the size of Kaziranga tigers. 

The only, indirect (Kaziranga is located further south), info we have was collected in the last 3 decades of the 19th century (referring to the book written by the Maharajah of Cooch Behar published in 1908). I read it and posted tables about the size of the tigers shot by the Maharajah and his guests in the tiger thread. The conclusion was tigers shot in Cooch Behar, the Duars and Assam, although about as long, were heavier (461 pounds as compared to 420) than tigers shot in Central India in about the same period. 

Kaziranga is located in a very productive alluvial floodplain. Furthermore, it's one of the best protected reserves. As there's a strong relation between weight and conditions in all wild big cats, chances are Kaziranga tigers are larger than those shot in Cooch Behar, the Duars and Assam over a century ago.    

Crater lions compare in that they too live in a productive, and isolated, district. Like Kaziranga tigers, they're not hunted. According to Packer, the only lion biologist able to change into a lion at will, Crater lions are bigger than the lions he studies. But how much bigger is anyone's guess.      

This means we, regarding wild big cats, have no other option but to watch videos and photographs in order to to get to estimates. In captive big cats, things are a bit different. That, however, doesn't mean it's easy to get to a decent estimate. 

Some years ago, I did an experiment in a Dutch facility. It had 3 male circus lions and 3 male Amur circus tigers. They lived next to each other, meaning it was easy to compare them. Those involved in the experiment were the director, a few keepers and 2 vets. All of them knew about big cats. I asked them to estimate the length and weight of the cats. Not one of them was even close. What I saw suggests opinions on size, even in 'professionals', seem to be a result of character, skull size and robustness. The lion who got most votes was not as long, tall and heavy as the other 5 males, but he was aggressive, big-skulled and robust.  

So much for opinions, I think. Unfortunately, we often have no choice but to do opinions. 

Anyhow. Here's my opinion on big cats living in deserts. What I saw, suggests big cats living in desert-like regions (referring to Ranthambore and Namibia in particular), apart from those (referring to tigers) living just south of the Himalayas, seem to be a bit longer and taller than their relatives living in other regions. My conclusion, I think, wasn't a result of angles and perception only. If anything, desert lions seemed as robust as their relatives in Kruger, if not more so. The table on Hobatere lions I posted, although the method used to measure them was a bit unclear, underlined Namibian lions, both males and females, are large animals. What I read about Ranthambore tigers also suggest they're among the largest actually measured.   

You could well be right about the Crater though. Male lions in Kruger and Namibia average about 190 kg. (Kruger) or a bit more (Namibia). If there's a region where males could exceed that mark, it would be the Crater.

As to the size of big cats. Many of those interested in big cats seem to be fascinated by size. Not seldom, pictures of enormous lions and tigers are posted. I measured about 20 captive big cats and saw a lot more. Any adult male lion or tiger exceeding 400 pounds (181,44 kg.) in good shape is an impressive and very powerful animal. Individuals exceeding 442 pounds (200,49 kg.) are very large. Every now and then, you'll see a cat exceeding 550 pounds (249,48 kg.) or even 600 pounds (272,16 kg.). At close range, a cat of this size will completely overwhelm you. Reply