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Wanhsien tiger ~

Guatemala GuateGojira Offline
Expert & Researcher
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#75
( This post was last modified: 02-03-2022, 05:55 AM by GuateGojira )

(02-03-2022, 02:32 AM)tostwear Wrote: Hello first of all @GuateGojira  @tigerluver 
I will ask you a few questions.
  • Is it true that the Alaskan Tiger is Panthera Tigris Acutidens?
  • How many mm is the largest skull of Panthera Tigris Acutidens (Wanhsien tiger)?
  • What is the maximum weight of Panthera Tigris Acutidens? (from the largest skull)

I will be glad if you answer my questions.

Hello, here are my answers:

1. In theory, those tigers from Alaska should be P. t. acutidens, however, there is no formal description of the specimens, measurements or anything, appart from the metrical study of Sandra Herrington in 1987. Also, some of those specimens were used in genetic studies by Dr Ross Barnet and resulted that they are cave "lions" Panthera spelaea, so they affinity is still in dispute.

2. There are only fragments from skulls of this tiger subspecies and Colbert & Hooijer (1953) did not provided any measurements (or estimation at least) of this large fragments, except for the dentition, which is larger than any modern tiger. Now, Hooijer (1947) did reported a complete skull and a picture was provided, but again, he did not published any measurement from the skull, except from the dentition, upper and lower jaw. In the particular specimen A.M.N.H. No. 18624, the mandible measured c.215 mm, and if you compare it with the other tiger specimens in table 3 of his document, the skull probably measured slightly less than 330 mm, about the size of an average sized Indochinese tiger (328.6 mm). Using my equation of mandible-GSL I can calculate a GLS of c.325 mm, assuming that is a male. Average weight of the modern subspecies P. t. corbetti  is of 191 kg in males, so about 185 kg will be a good weight estimation for this specimen, the only complete skull (for the moment).

*This image is copyright of its original author


3 - As there are specimens that are larger than A.M.N.H. No. 18624, but that we only know the dentition, we can calculate a weight based on them. The largest specimen recorded (based in upper dentition) by Colbert & Hooijer (1953) is the A.M.N.H. 18678 which consist in a right upper Pm4, right lower canine, fragment of right mandibular ramus with lower pm3, pm4 (broken), right pm4 and left lower m1. The biggest specimen based in lower dentition is A.M.N.H. 18680 which correspond to a left upper canine, left upper Pm 4, maxillary fragment with right pm4, left lower canine, left pm4 and fragment of the right mandibular ramus with lower m 1. The important lengths are:

A.M.N.H. 18678
Upper Pm 4: 42 mm length X 22 mm wide.
Lower m 1: 30.8 mm length X 16 mm wide.

A.M.N.H. 18680
Upper Pm 4: 37.8 mm length X 21.4 mm wide.
Lower m 1: 31.0 mm length X 15.7 mm wide.

Using dental formulas like Van Valkenburg (1991) and Legendre and Roth (1988) I calculated a body mass of 267 kg for these specimens with a probably maximum of up to 300 kg, taking in count that dentitions like this probably belonged to skulls of about 400 mm in GSL or slightly over that.  

Base on the evidence available in litterature, the Wanshien tiger (Panthera tigris acutidens) was of the same size as modern Bengal and Amur tigers, or maybe slightly bigger in the best of the cases. Now, there are several bones in private collections, including a huge skull that sadly are not available for study, so they are useless for conclutions.
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Messages In This Thread
Wanhsien tiger ~ - brotherbear - 12-11-2014, 06:59 PM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - Pckts - 12-12-2014, 12:03 AM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - GrizzlyClaws - 12-12-2014, 12:35 AM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - Pckts - 12-12-2014, 01:40 AM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - GrizzlyClaws - 12-12-2014, 02:33 AM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - Pckts - 12-12-2014, 09:27 PM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - GrizzlyClaws - 12-12-2014, 10:28 PM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - GuateGojira - 12-13-2014, 12:07 PM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - johnny rex - 12-13-2014, 03:00 PM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - GuateGojira - 12-13-2014, 08:04 PM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - tigerluver - 12-13-2014, 10:12 PM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - Pckts - 12-14-2014, 01:44 AM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - GrizzlyClaws - 12-14-2014, 03:31 AM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - GuateGojira - 12-14-2014, 11:17 AM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - GuateGojira - 12-14-2014, 11:34 AM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - GrizzlyClaws - 12-14-2014, 01:12 PM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - Polar - 06-25-2016, 10:39 PM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - GuateGojira - 06-26-2016, 10:46 AM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - tigerluver - 06-26-2016, 11:04 AM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - Polar - 06-26-2016, 11:22 AM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - GuateGojira - 06-26-2016, 11:29 AM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - GuateGojira - 06-26-2016, 11:22 AM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - genao87 - 08-08-2016, 10:02 AM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - brotherbear - 08-08-2016, 12:30 PM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - genao87 - 08-23-2016, 11:04 AM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - peter - 08-24-2016, 01:11 PM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - genao87 - 08-24-2016, 09:38 PM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - tigerluver - 08-24-2016, 11:39 PM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - peter - 08-25-2016, 04:36 AM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - GrizzlyClaws - 08-25-2016, 10:40 AM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - GrizzlyClaws - 08-25-2016, 07:12 AM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - genao87 - 08-25-2016, 10:31 PM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - Pckts - 08-25-2016, 10:46 PM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - GrizzlyClaws - 08-25-2016, 10:56 PM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - Pckts - 08-25-2016, 10:57 PM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - GrizzlyClaws - 08-25-2016, 11:00 PM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - genao87 - 08-25-2016, 11:51 PM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - Pckts - 08-26-2016, 12:01 AM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - GrizzlyClaws - 08-26-2016, 12:04 AM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - genao87 - 08-26-2016, 11:20 AM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - GrizzlyClaws - 08-27-2016, 12:06 AM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - genao87 - 06-18-2017, 05:22 AM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - tigerluver - 06-19-2017, 01:30 AM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - genao87 - 06-20-2017, 05:22 AM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - Wolverine - 09-07-2018, 11:22 PM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - GrizzlyClaws - 09-08-2018, 12:15 AM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - Wolverine - 09-08-2018, 03:48 AM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - GrizzlyClaws - 09-08-2018, 04:47 AM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - GuateGojira - 09-08-2018, 09:12 AM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - GrizzlyClaws - 09-08-2018, 12:09 PM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - Wolverine - 09-08-2018, 10:26 AM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - GrizzlyClaws - 09-08-2018, 12:24 PM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - Wolverine - 09-09-2018, 05:14 AM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - Wolverine - 09-09-2018, 05:40 AM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - GuateGojira - 09-09-2018, 06:31 AM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - GrizzlyClaws - 09-09-2018, 08:57 AM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - GuateGojira - 09-09-2018, 10:14 AM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - Wolverine - 09-10-2018, 10:06 AM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - GrizzlyClaws - 10-15-2018, 11:10 PM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - Wolverine - 11-02-2018, 11:56 AM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - Wolverine - 09-09-2018, 11:00 AM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - GuateGojira - 09-09-2018, 12:36 PM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - brotherbear - 10-15-2018, 05:40 PM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - GrizzlyClaws - 10-15-2018, 11:12 PM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - brotherbear - 12-03-2018, 02:29 PM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - P.T.Sondaica - 10-09-2019, 02:40 PM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - GuateGojira - 12-10-2019, 01:31 AM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - GrizzlyClaws - 12-10-2019, 02:34 AM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - P.T.Sondaica - 12-11-2019, 05:19 PM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - GuateGojira - 02-28-2020, 11:52 PM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - P.T.Sondaica - 03-09-2020, 01:51 PM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - GuateGojira - 03-09-2020, 08:35 PM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - GrizzlyClaws - 03-10-2020, 12:19 AM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - tostwear - 02-03-2022, 02:32 AM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - GuateGojira - 02-03-2022, 05:38 AM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - GrizzlyClaws - 02-03-2022, 07:49 AM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - tostwear - 02-03-2022, 04:12 PM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - tigerluver - 02-04-2022, 03:25 AM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - Amphi - 02-28-2022, 09:59 PM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - Amphi - 02-28-2022, 10:00 PM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - GuateGojira - 02-28-2022, 11:15 PM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - GuateGojira - 02-28-2022, 11:19 PM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - GrizzlyClaws - 08-26-2022, 07:29 AM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - Bitishannah - 07-10-2023, 01:31 PM
RE: Wanhsien tiger ~ - GuateGojira - 08-24-2023, 06:07 AM



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