Lions of Sabi Sands

[BA0701]

(11-07-2023, 09:31 PM)criollo2mil Wrote:

(11-07-2023, 08:52 PM)BA0701 Wrote: Video just dropped on Painted Dog, saying they believe it is related to TB.

so I wanted to add that I have seen comments  (and heard) regarding the TB component and suspicions.

the first comment I will make is that its almost a foregone conclusion that over 90-95% of the lions in the region have been exposed to TB.  in most cases it simply lays dormant as the Lion's immune system maintains it suppressed.

TB ususally manifests in lions with compromised immune systems...what compromises them comes in many different forms....old age is very common factor.

in the case of S8, I have been told by some...that he apparently (I myself do not have first hand knowledge this happened) had some type of incident w a Buffalo and was seen with swolen face and at least one guide said he had lost canines.

the thought here is that the incident triggered an immune response but that it also allowed the TB to overtake his body.

I am no expert...i had a (maybe naive perspective) that TB takes a long time to hurt a lion and especially a strong one like S8.  

after the two Talamati Lionesses died of very similar rapid decline, I may be thinking differently.  and MAybe TB could really take on a very aggresiv eform and kill rather quickly.

i do know from a good source that both lionesses were tested post mortim and indeed tested positive for TB (but that isnt particularly a surprise) since like i mentioned, their estimates say 95% of these lions would test as such.....in their cases, what I have never had clarified is 'what triggered" if anything the TB response and the rapid decline.   both lionesses seemed quite healthy until very very near their deaths.

from what I have gathered in discussion from authorities,,,if/when S8 dies, they will likely do an extended test (abive and beyond their typical protocol) to identify toxins or other pathogens in his system to maybe identify a more definitive cause...if they do so, it would be because there has now been three lions from this same family that have died in a rapid rate.   maybe just maybe their deaths wont go in vain and they can get to the bottom of what could be at play...mitigate it for the others.

You hit directly on the problem. We had a pride of three females, and one male, all seemingly healthy and strong, and this is now the third one of those who out of the blue has fallen deathly ill. Clearly there is something happening, especially when you consider the lone remaining female was recently snared. I also believe, as you stated, that if you were to test every wild lion in Kruger/Sabi Sands, the vast majority of them would test positive for TB, however, and I personally know this for a fact, testing positive does not in any way mean you will die from the disease, or even get sick, it simply shows that you have been exposed to it. Once you test positive, you will continue to test positive forever, even if treated.

I don't believe you, @criollo2mil, are questioning the reserve's honesty or sincerity, as I know you have a really good relationship with most of them, but I have seen others questioning these things, mostly on other sites. Personally, I trust in the reserves, I believe that they at least believe what they are telling us, at the time they are telling us something. I don't think they would ever intentionally mislead us, or tell us something that is blatantly false. If they say or post something that seems off, or appears false, I may question it, but will still believe that it was not done maliciously, until I see evidence to the contrary. If we can't trust the eyes on the ground, then who are we going to trust? They may perhaps sugar coat things on occasion, as they believe it may be best to soften certain things, and I understand that, but I don't think they will knowingly lie to us. I will continue to hope for things to take a positive turn for S8, until we get to the point that they no longer can, and as well, I will continue to hope that the reserves will do what they can to identify what has happened, and believe that they will be honest in telling us what they believe the root cause is. Reply