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Spinosaurus News ~
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For both tigerluver's points and GuateGojira's points I think a few things should be noted.
Regarding the ribcage (both): I'm not 100% sure exactly if there were any specific osteological measurements that led Ibrahim to give the model a wider torso but that wider torso is more coherent with what both the mounted skeletons and Andrea Cau's attempt at articulating spinosaur ribs will show us; a width to depth ratio of at least 1 to 1. That's quite more than Henderson (2018), which was something like 64.3% as wide as its deepest point, so it could be that Ibrahim took a cue from those while working on the new model or was simply able to replicate the results both the mounts and Cau got when trying his hand at rib articulation. Spinosaurus isn't tanker like or super-wide to the degree of something like an ankylosaur, but it is fairly rotund. I have asked SpinoInWonderland about the specifics and will probably either also email Ibrahim or sign up for Reddit and ask him there about the width. I'll get back to this thread with the answer when either responds. Regarding how wide/robust Spinosaurus was (GuateGojira): Yes, it's not as wide as wider dinosaurs like carcharodontosaurids or tyrannosaurids but spinosaurids in general tend to be fairly rotund and barrel chested in their torsos. The mounted skeletons as well as Cau's attempt for articulation of the ribs do show it's circular in cross section or perhaps a bit wider. It doesn't have an angelfish like cross section like Henderson's model may suggest. Regarding the accuracy of Ibrahim's conclusion (GuateGojira): Yes, his assumption for a quadrupedal spinosaur was not correct, but I see more reason to trust the width of his model as opposed to Henderson given that it falls more in line with what several independent attempts for rib articulation have arrived at. It's best to look at research conclusions on a case by case basis - just because some are wrong does not mean that is the case with others. And in this case, not only is the torso width more in line with other attempts, the masses of 10-12 tonnes are easily replicated when scaling some specimens, as previously stated. Regarding that National Geographic article (GuateGojira): I clicked on it again and as it turns out, you are right, it does exist. However, they make no citation to the 2020 study for the mass, which reaffirms my suspicion that they're using the old 2014 model for the mass as not only is a mere 7 tonnes not coherent with the new model, that figure is very widespread and well known so it'd be easy for them to just put it in the article. And finally, regarding SpinoInWonderland (GuateGojira): Quote:I was about to discuss the details but when you mentioned Spinoinwonderland again I saw that all this will be just a joke. I think that is futile to discuss the outdated and weird conclutions of a "Spino-fan" that constantly reject all the information in favor of the T. rex. That's not what he is at like at all these days, what you're thinking of is really, really old stuff back from 2012. He has since then changed his viewpoints, and just because he gets larger sizes than other people for some theropods does NOT mean he rejects information in favor of Tyrannosaurus nor does it mean his conclusions are outdated and weird. His methods and works are easily explainable and defensible, and whatever you should have an issue with, let me know. I think either I can explain it sufficiently or I can ask SpinoInWonderland. By the way, if this has to do with his username, the 'Spino' in it does NOT come from Spinosaurus but rather Spinophorosaurus. I can see how you would think he is a Spinosaurus fan by reading his name at face value but not only is that not what he is, the name doesn't even have anything to do with Spinosaurus at all. One last thing, based on some personal communication with SIW himself, agreeing to disagreeing if we cannot agree and if you don't want to talk to him may be best. I have absolutely no issue to continue this but if turns out we cannot agree and if you don't want to talk to SIW about this, we may have to agree to disagree. |
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