Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project

[Sanju]

(01-31-2015, 12:29 PM)peter Wrote: ASIAN LIONS THEN AND NOW

Over the years, I've read many posts about Asian lions. It seems many think lions were unknown in Asia in the past. Many also think African lions were introduced to India by local rulers. I don't agree.  

In AVA (in the tiger thread), I posted more than once on a book written by J.F. Brandt ('Untersuchungen über die Verbreituing des Tigers und seine Beziehungen zur Menschheit', St. Petersburg, 1856). For his book, Brandt read just about anything written on the two big cats in Asia. To keep it short: there's no question whatsoever that lions had been known in Asia Minor, parts of India and the region north-west of India (up to north-east of Kabul in Afghanistan) for a long time.


WHERE LIONS AND TIGERS MET
 
Asia Minor (apart from parts of Central India) probably was the only place where tigers and lions lived in close proximity for a long time. I'm referring to the region just south of Georgia all the way down to the deserts to the south. Same for the region between Georgia and the Indus River to the east. Although both big cats lived in close proximity, Brandt didn't find a shred of evidence of interaction anywhere. Lions occupied open terrain and tigers (as well as bears) preferred elevated and forested parts of the same region.

Tigers living in Asia Minor belonged to Panthera tigris virgata. In most books and reports, they were described as somewhat smaller and darker (the stripes often were brownish) than those living in the northern part (the Caspian and the region east and north-east of the Caspian). They were also described as very wild at heart. Not suited for captivity. Those out for cubs usually had a rough time when they had found and taken cubs. There are many stories about tigresses entering villages and attacking villagers. The bond between tigresses and their cubs was well known, if not legendary.


INDIAN LIONS

It could be some local Indian rulers imported African lions at some stage and it could be some of these mixed with the local lions, but Brandt is very clear about lions in south-west Asia: they were there well before humans began writing about them. I also think they were not pushed out of India by tigers. Asian lions were exterminated by humans when these began to multiply and fire-arms and poison became available. The reason is they were much more visible and, therefore, vulnarable.


THE FUTURE OF INDIAN LIONS

Based on what I read in Brandt's book, lions, I think, could be re-introduced in most wild parts of Asia Minor. The problem, of course, is the region is unstable. Eastern Turkey, parts of southern Georgia and northern Irak, Iran and some parts of Pakistan and Afghanistan, however, could be suited. For now. My choice, strange as it may sound, would be the region in eastern Iran, north-western Pakistan and east and south-east Afghanistan. Barren and elevated it is, but largely deserted. We'd have to meet with some of the local warlords, of course. If there are, as rumours suggest, any Caspian tigers left, they would be in that part of Asia. Some of the former Sovjet Republics (in the extreme south of the former Sovjet-Union) could be suited as well. Things are a bit slow over there. Lions could boost tourism. But I would want to see a few Caspian tigers as well. 

great!

(03-28-2015, 03:54 AM)Krillow Wrote: I think Asian lions would thrive throughout India.  Their main threat being humans, and crossing into civilization.  I think tigers, and lions can coexist no problem.  Of course occasional conflicts may arrise.  That's the case with every animals though.  Sloth bears, rhinos, elephants, tigers.   Natural conflicts occur. Historically tigers, and lions coexisted in India, the way it should be.  If not for humans, and poaching.  And I do think that tigers, and lions would stay our of each others way for the most part.  Tigers wouldn't pose a risk to relocating the lions, but like with all animals a rare conflict may happen.

EXACTLY.

(06-06-2015, 05:49 AM)Brehm Wrote:

Roflcopters\ dateline='\'1427536717' Wrote:

Krillow\ dateline='\'1427496878' Wrote: I think Asian lions would thrive throughout India.  Their main threat being humans, and crossing into civilization.  I think tigers, and lions can coexist no problem.  Of course occasional conflicts may arrise.  That's the case with every animals though.  Sloth bears, rhinos, elephants, tigers.   Natural conflicts occur. Historically tigers, and lions coexisted in India, the way it should be.  If not for humans, and poaching.  And I do think that tigers, and lions would stay our of each others way for the most part.  Tigers wouldn't pose a risk to relocating the lions, but like with all animals a rare conflict may happen.



 

Tigers and Lions have never co-existed in the past and nor will they ever in the near future, also if you did your research on Asiatic Lions properly. you'd know that there's no place besides Gir Forest for them in India. Everywhere else is far too close to tiger territories and that is going to be chaotic for not only the conversationists but the species themselves. Ultimately, one cat will greatly suffer. 

*This image is copyright of its original author

some of the Tiger Reserves shown on the Map of India, tell me exactly where the lions would go for relocation. Also, the area north of Corbett is the Terai Arc Landscape with a large population of tigers in the forests. 





 

 

 

I haven't read it anywhere yet, so i'm gonna express my thougts and idea. Not every tiger reserve is blessed with a healty population of tigers, it would make sense, to analyze some of those areas and consider them as a potential relocating place for lions. To become concrete,  i think the best option would be Sariska. Yes, it sounds strange, but after thinking about the pro's and con's, the only points which speaks against this idea are the facts, that it is one of the first tiger reserves (and therefore a matter of "pride") and (of course) political issues. The latter is  anyway a problem which can't be solved quickly (especially now because of Prime M. Modi).
But the tiger - lion conflict, could be avoided in a noble way. Passing Sariska to lions, while in the same time exchanging Kuno completely to tigers would be a fair deal:

- Lions would find a new home, with a healty prey base and a territory big enough to expand (for the beginning) 

- Tigers could start occupiyng Kuno Palpur in bigger numbers (if the population in Ranthambore should top the limit of it's optimum size) and use it frequently as corridor to Ranthambore. With approximately 1200 km² Kuno offers enough space to roam around for dozen's of tigers. Combined with the ca 400 km² of Ranthambore, it really could be a future place for a healthy tiger population. Big places with corridors to expand is something, what tigers obviously need , the Kuno - Ranthambore complex could be one of it in the long run in my opinion.

I mean, tigers were whiped out of Sarisa around 10 years ago, how many are there at the moment after relocation? 4-5? They can be captured and moved to Kuno. Sariska had his chance as tiger reserve, it is doubfull, that it will ever again become a place for a healthy tiger population and the park staff + local government will still be remembered as those, who let the tigers getting poached. If justified or not, is another question. "Sariska Lion's Sanctuary" could bring some new energy, motivation and consistency. It can be called a new chance, therefore.
And "Kuno Tiger Reserve" sounds anway much better [img]images/smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

Just my thought's, i know it may sound's weird after the first read, but what do you guys think about it honestly, after the first round of laughing?[img]images/smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Brehm

Sounds good idea! Reply