Lion Predation

[peter]

PC AND PANTHERINAE

The intention of this forum is to get to good information on predators in general and big cats in particular. Good info is the aim, but a nice debate can be interesting as well. Everything else is out. Forum rules say it starts with respect. Here's a few remarks and I propose to take the advice to heart.


PC

Being interested in animals is different from being able to interact in public. Posting on a forum isn't easy. It takes skill and time to learn how to post good info and how to debate. You had some experience, whereas Pantherinae is new to the trade. From what I read, I'd say he's quite young and probably unexperienced. If you're unhappy with the way he's posting, try to guide him in the right direction. If the result is  unsatisfactory, try something else or inform the mods.

Don't jump to conclusions and remember it took me, when at college, many years to learn how to do research, how to write a report, how to get to conclusions and how to respond to questions. In the end, it is about details, accuracy and consistency all the way. Very difficult at the best of times and many of those I knew, although they graduated, never succeeded in writing something decent. This regarding those able to get to and finish college. Apart from them I know plenty of people I consider knowledgeable but unable to express themselves at all. Yet we talk.  


PANTHERINAE

It's clear you are interested in big cats. The question is how to exchange information. If you join a forum, members will respond to your posts. Anything you offer will be used to get to a debate. It can also be used against you. This is the reason you got to try to be as accurate as possible. If you post something remarkable, members want to see your cards. You also got to remember everything you post is here to stay. Inaccurate info, disputes and everything connected can follow you for a long time to come. In this respect, the internet is unforgiving.  

Another thing you might have noticed is those interested in a particular animal take things very personal at times. If you, even without intention to do so, post something that could be interpreted in the wrong way, chances are a dispute will erupt and a war could develop. The only thing that isn't unpredicatable in a war is the destruction it causes.

I can give you many examples of forums that have been destroyed by unhappy members. This forum, in fact, was started by members of a forum that was destroyed. As we know things can get out of hand real fast, we decided to be strict regarding rules. You are invited to continue. Before you do, my advice is to read the forum rules again. I'll ask PC to contact you.


PICTURES, VIDEOS, BIG CATS, BLOGS AND WEIGHTS

Today, many reserves in India are open for the public. Same in Africa. Tourists post videos and pictures, there are blogs and forums and debates seem to be all over the place. Most of those offering estimates on big cats seem to be quite sure about themselves.  

I have visited quite a number of facilities and zoos over the years. I've measured and weighed captive big cats. Before I did, I always asked those involved to get to estimates about the cats they had known so well for so long. The conclusion was only very few were able to get to realistic estimates. Most overestimated large animals and underestimated small animals. By quite a margin, I might add.

I apparently takes a lot of experience to get to within 10%. When you can see an animal yourself at close range. In wild animals, it's way more difficult to get to a good estimate. It depends on the angles. Furthermore, individuals seem subject to significant fluctuations.

The only thing we can be sure about is information in peer-reviewed documents and these suggest wild Indian tigers, at the level of average, seem to be heavier than all other wild big cats. The differences between Kruger lions and Amur tigers (length and weight) are limited. All other subspecies are smaller, but tigers show a bit more variation than lions. Ngorogoro lions and Kazirangha tigers, however, have not been weighed.

I propose to be a bit more careful regarding wild big cats and weights. When it can't be avoided, try to stick to arguments. The thing we want to avoid is heated discussions about zilch. Ok?  Reply