Animal trainers

[peter]

(12-07-2015, 10:50 PM)GrizzlyClaws Wrote:

(12-07-2015, 05:35 PM)Spalea Wrote: @ Peter: Great your explanations about the differences of behavior between male lions and male tigers ! That is the first time where I can read it with so much clarity.

Thus, if these differences remain in captivity, we can understand why the male lion is more aggressive  than the male tiger, and why the male lion can be often detected, perceived, as being more "extrovert". In a other thread about the Mapogo pride, you demonstrated that it could be very dangerous for a male lion to stay a long time alone within his territory. Because a pride of lions realize that could be able to eliminate him very quickly. In other words, the lions being social animals, it would be suicidal for a male lion to live like a male tiger, i.e. solitary. Except perhaps if he learns to be very cautious, elusive (like the man eaters in Tanzania). I don't know...

The male lion is the big cat who life in wild is the shortest one. Thus, as concerns the duration of their life in "top form" is very short (2-3 years). A male tiger learning to have an elusive and cautious behavior during his whole life can live (in wild) more time. Recently some photos of the big male tiger Wagdoh were showed inside a thread about the big tigers. He still seems very vigorous, robust. How old is he ? I don't believe that a male lion in wild can be as old as him, especially with his vigour (vigor).

Wagdoh is probably around 15 years by now.

The first time I saw him was 2007, and I was impressive by the stature of this male tiger. And he didn't look like a subadult male, but a large mature male around 6-7 years old.

Lions

There are no lone wild male lions in Africa, Spalea. Not for long, I mean. A pride male can be for some time when he is defeated, but chances are he will team up with others as soon as possible. A solitary male doesn't stand a chance in the long run. Not in regions with many lions.

Man-eaters often operate in small groups as well. Solitary man-eaters often are desperate animals unable to team up or to hunt. 

The pressure on wild males in particular is such, that they don't last for long. This is not a result of genes (captive male lions often live for 15-20 years and most of those I saw, in contrast to old male tigers, were still quite fit when they died or, as a result of an injury, had to be euthanized), but a result of their way of life. In Africa, only the fit, no matter what species, stand a chance to get to old age. And old age is reached immediately after the best years.

Tigers

In India, tigers reach 10-15 years every now and then. Middle-aged male tigers, although not as active as before, still put on weight. As a result of their size, quite many can survive and even win fights. When they feel the end is near, they retreat to a secluded part of their territory. Some males reach 15 or even a bit more. Just before they die of natural causes, they often are thin as a rail.

A century ago, Corbett, as a result of a misunderstanding, shot the 15-year old Pipal Pani tiger he had known all his life. This tiger, 10.3 'over curves', was still as fit and capable as they come. Corbett thought he easily could have added 5 more years or even more. Wiele, a few decades before Corbett, wrote about a very large male in southern India. This giant was well-known by the locals, who told him the tiger was at least 20 years of age. There are more reliable reports about very old animals.

Lions, tigers and humans

In Africa, lion society is as tough as it gets. The competition for hot spots, females and food has consequences. Even pride males have to compete for females and food with the other members of the brotherhood. For many males, competition never stops. Never a dull moment.  

To get an idea of what it feels like, compare it to us. Today, many humans reach 80 and over. This is a result of good conditions and organisation. Just suppose the organisation breaks down and competition replaces laws. After a few decades, only young males operating in groups will be left. Only the very best would stand a chance to reach 40. This is why a wild male lion seldom reaches 10.

Tigers are forest animals. India still has a lot of forest. When protection would be taken seriously and the number of wild ungulates would rise, India could still accomodate many thousands of tigers. The problem is only a tiny part of wild India is protected. Most tigers live in these protected reserves. As food is no problem, tigers do ok. More tigers and nowhere to go, however, equals more competition and more casualties. Those that survive the unslaught often are large and bulky animals. This is why tigers in India, although, possibly, not longer, are a bit heavier than a century ago and this is why more and more don't reach old age. It is not the rule everywhere, but the days of old age are largely past and gone.

In the end, when nothing changes, wild African lions and wild Indian tigers will face similar conditions. This will result in similar animals with a similar attitude.

The Amurs have more forest and face less competition. For this reason, they, in theory, should be able to reach old age more often. The problem, however, is very long and often severe winters, regular crop failures and mass migrations, 60 000 hunters with a license and, last but not least, wild boars and brown bears. They have to hunt them, because of the lack of large ungulates. As they can't hunt miniature boars and bears all the time (as this will result in energy deficits), they have no option but to hunt quite large animals. Professional hazards.

Conclusion

On could say that wild male African lions have to survive in a lawless society in which all participants compete for hot spots, food and women. As these objectives can't be realized by individuals, males have no option but to join a team. As soon as possible. Only the very best succeed to get to a pride and breed, but the pressure is such that old age is something they only read about in postcards from captive relatives. Wild male Indian tigers have a bit more room and time, but time is running out in most reserves. The result is quite similar conditions. 

More often than male lions, male tigers reach 10. One reason is they live in forests and can retreat when they suffer from a cough. Another is tiger society isn't about groups, but individuals. As tigers keep growing for a long time, older males usually are a bit larger than others. In a one-on-one, size counts.

Amur tigers have more room and face less humans, but many of them have a hunting license and the result is empty stores for tigers. This is why tigers have no option but to hunt wild boars and bears.  

All in all, wild male big cats face very tough conditions everywhere. Those that survive are the very best. In Africa, nearly all warriors are prime animals. In India and Russia, you might see a few gladiators with a greyish beard every now and then.

Captive big cats are mere parodies of their wild relatives. This is in particular true for tigers. Rewilding is possible, but only if it is done in small steps. The first step is to create a sanctuary with no wild animals close at hand. This will result in many fights. The second step is to introduce a few wild females. The third step is to create a sanctuary at the edge of a reserve with few wild male tigers. It will take a few generations to succeed. Reply