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Asiatic Lion - Data, Pictures & Videos
Asiatic Lion - Data, Pictures & Videos
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Asiatic Lion - Data, Pictures & Videos
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 (04-30-2019, 09:58 PM)Sanju Wrote: Gir Lions (cattle lifters most of the diet in comparison to africans) are no longer smaller than African beasts ... They feed more frequently on large mammals (domestic cow and buffalo available year round, abundant and easy to catch) unlike African plain kings who less often kill big prey like wild buffalo (tougher to hunt and less numbers, not available throughout year or year round contrast to guj situation) "relative" to guj lions. African Lions feed far more often on large prey, the number of large Ungulates and Bovidae in Africa is unsurpassed in the entire world, Cape, Zebra, Wildebeest, Herdebeest, Elephant and Giraffe, Rhino, Hippo, Eland, Kudu, etc. are all available year round. Even in a place like the Serengeti where the great migration exists, there is still a large number of Ungulates and Bovidae available even after the great migration has happened. Then when you go to places like the Ngorongoro Crater, they have massive herds of buffalo, Zebra and Wildebeest year round on top of having color temps and tons of water which is why they are said to produce larger Cats, at least when it comes to mass *Chest Girth.* On top of all of that, African Lions are cattle lifters as well. I've spoke with a few who've seen both, everyone I've spoken with says Africans are larger than the Indians they've seen. From Anjan Lal when we had a discussion about this a while back "Asiatic lions are a bit smaller and the males have a smaller and darker mane in comparison to their African cousins" and from his post 2 years later... Anjan Lal African Lions Are Far More Bigger & Bulkier Than Their Indian Cousins Back in Gir National Park, India!!! Masai Mara National Reserve Kenya  *This image is copyright of its original author
@Pckts I know that there is lot of mega fauna in africa and also I do know that lions hunt and eat almost every animal on the savanna. Animals exceeding 1000 kg is not "being preyed that much often". They kill mainly zebra (avg ~ 350 kg) and wildebeest (~270 kg) and other antelopes. Gir Lions prey almost entirely on cattle & buffalo (~500 and max 1000 Kg) and almost everyday.
I didn't said gir lions are larger than largest lions on the planet (ngorongoro..), I used the term "African Lions" which includes all the lions on african continent. In reference to all of them "these days", these gir lions are equaling them. See the videos of those lions I'm posting in the thread.  *This image is copyright of its original author osm ... MALE DEDAKDI 2013 Ajay Ratnakar  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author Quote:I LOVE GIR ..... HEALTHY TOURISM .... NO EDITING - Ajay Ratnakar (04-30-2019, 10:30 PM)Sanju Wrote: @Pckts I know that there is lot of mega fauna in africa and also I do know that lions hunt and eat almost every animal on the savanna. Animals exceeding 1000 kg is not "being preyed that much often". They kill mainly zebra (avg ~ 350 kg) and wildebeest (~270 kg) and other antelopes. Gir Lions prey almost entirely on cattle & buffalo (~500 and max 1000 Kg) and almost everyday. Lions in Africa prey Zebra, Wildebeest, Cape and other antelopes regularly. *This image is copyright of its original author *This image is copyright of its original author The study was conducted between 2005 and 2007 in the northern sector of Hwange National Park (Hwange), north-western Zimbabwe https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0055182 "The most preferred weight of Lion prey is 350kg" http://ibs.bialowieza.pl/g2/pdf/1595.pdf Buffalo again being the most common prey item between the 3 "Zebra, Wildebeest and Cape" But it'll depend on the Lions, you have Lions like the Notches who made a living off of Hippo's, you have Lions in Botswana that Kill Elephants, Lions in the Crater that feast off of mega sized Ungulates and Capes, etc. In regards to Cattle, for one they are usually fairly small, not any larger than Wildebeest or Zebra usually looking much more malnourished and produce a much more unhealthy meat. For their average weight, Schaller describes them as 150kg https://zslpublications.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/j.1469-7998.2010.00780.x And if you use the most common prey items, "Cattle 8%, Buffalo 11%, Sambar 26% and Chital 32%, your average prey weight would be less than 150kg which would be 200kg short of the African Lions mark. Just a quick example, this is in the Serengeti after the Great Migration had already passed, this heard of Cape was absolutely massive, we had to wait in or Jeep for 15-20 minutes while the entire herd passed by.  *This image is copyright of its original author And this was just from one small Watering Hole in Tarangire  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author You just don't see sights like this anywhere else on earth, India's wildlife is very sparse, spread out throughout the dense sal or teak, even places with larger watering holes like Tadoba don't accumulate near the vast quantity of life that they do in Africa. (04-30-2019, 10:14 PM)Pckts Wrote: Asiatic lions are a bit smaller and the males have a smaller and darker mane in comparison to their African cousinsAll africans are not melanochaita. I said "African Lions" and you are comparing them giants of southern lions or melanochaita like mara, ngorongoro and okavango ... there are central and west african lions. I dunno who said you that Gir Lions are smallest lions. Even when they are severely affected due to human factors and hunting they average 160 to 190 kg acc to 1993. Now, they are becoming larger and larger. (04-30-2019, 11:06 PM)Sanju Wrote:(04-30-2019, 10:14 PM)Pckts Wrote: Asiatic lions are a bit smaller and the males have a smaller and darker mane in comparison to their African cousinsAll africans are not melanochaita. I said "African Lions" and you are comparing them giants of southern lions or melanochaita like mara, ngorongoro and okavango ... there are central and west african lions. I'm mainly comparing them to E. African Lions, hence why I'm showing the Serengeti and Anjan showed a Kenyan Lion. Also the highest number of Lions on earth live in East Africa which is another reason I'm comparing them. Some Central and West African Lions are smaller and compare to GIR lions but still look to be more robust if I'm being honest. In regards to them becoming larger and larger, I've not seen any data to confirm that. I know that we have far more access to cameras now and we're able to view more individual cats than ever before and thus seeing healthy individuals is easier. Also, if you are going to play that game, then you'd need to do the same with African Lions which have been absolutely decimated like all other big cats, so if their numbers increased you'd have to assume they'd still be able to produce even heavier individuals. (04-30-2019, 11:02 PM)Pckts Wrote: Lions in Africa prey Zebra, Wildebeest, Cape and other antelopes regularly.Again, you are using the term, african lions and comparing them with Serengeti and Zimbabwe lions ... Gir lions almost entirely feed on cattle and buffalo n other livestock like camels and donkeys (with avg ~500 kg). Lion diet studies are mainly made in gir forest but If you see a lion in amreli town or city for instance, they daily eat one thing that is livestock. Like wise, all the lions outside 1400 km2 that is balance in 25000 km2 lions only eat cattle and buffalo (max upto ton)... " I never said they are as large as east african lions and southern lions". Look thoroughly I'm saying african lions and their weight is closing by to african lions (when you total all african population, africa means not south africa, it means entire Continent is similar to gir lions weight). And don't compare with cherry-picked large lion population. Africa doesn't mean only those natural reserves and lions. Take over all west african, central lions and southern ones. (04-30-2019, 11:17 PM)Pckts Wrote: In regards to them becoming larger and larger, I've not seen any data to confirm that.coz they are no new studies on them. (04-30-2019, 11:17 PM)Pckts Wrote: I know that we have far more access to cameras now and we're able to view more individual cats than ever before and thus seeing healthy individuals is easier.Yeah if you see past years images of lions and compare them with these days. clear cut difference. I know they are no official studies though. recently a member posted weight charts of captive asiatics. (04-30-2019, 11:26 PM)Sanju Wrote:(04-30-2019, 11:02 PM)Pckts Wrote: Lions in Africa prey Zebra, Wildebeest, Cape and other antelopes regularly.Again, you are using the term, african lions and comparing them with Serengeti and Zimbabwe lions ... E. African Lions make up most of the population, the largest reserves in E. Africa are the Serengeti and Seolous, Seolous being much less explored due to the tougher terrain for jeeps. There is no "cherry picking" that is a fact. The total lion population in E. Africa is far more than anywhere else on earth, W. African Lions make up a minimal amount of the total population. GIR lions don't almost entirely feed cattle and if they did, it certainly wouldn't be a benefit. India domestic cattle is skinny, malnourished and live in horrible conditions, I have huge doubts that any cat would reach it's potential feeding off of it on the fringes of civilization. It doesn't matter how you slice it Prey biomass-Africa outnumbers GIR Prey Size-African outsizes GIR Lion Size-African outsize GIR Eye witness accounts "africans outsize gir" I'm not sure what else you have other than speculation, which isn't based off measurements or science, just your personal opinion.
@Pckts Then why calling gir lions smaller than their "african cousins" ? why not "serengeti or east african blah blah" when they consist bulk of african population... ? coz asia - africa is good in rhyming to make up that statement ?
(05-01-2019, 12:14 AM)Pckts Wrote: India domestic cattle is skinny, malnourished and live in horrible conditions, I have huge doubts that any cat would reach it's potential feeding off of it on the fringes of civilization.is that your opinion ? you know around gir what cattle exist ? Gyr cattle. The world famous Gir or Gyr is one of the principal Zebu breeds originating in India. It has been used locally in the improvement of other breeds including the Red Sindhi and the Sahiwal. It was also one of the breeds used in the development of the Brahman breed in North America. In Brazil and other South American countries the Gir is used frequently. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyr_cattle bulls weigh 545 kg on average, with a height of 140 cm. Cattle Breeds: An Encyclopedia  *This image is copyright of its original author http://gircowbreeders.com/aboutgir.php  *This image is copyright of its original author You know what else we have in and around gir.. ? Buffalo: Jafarabadi buffalo The Indian National Scientific Documentation Centre states that the Jafarabadi buffalo is a hybrid of the African cape buffalo and the Indian water buffalo, the former originally been brought to British India for slaughtering. The Indian National Scientific Documentation Centre states that the Jafarabadi buffalo is a hybrid of the African cape buffalo and the Indian water buffalo, the former originally been brought to British India for slaughtering. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jafarabadi_buffalo Jafarabadi buffaloes have heavy heads with fairly large, thick, flat horns, which drop on the sides of the neck and go on upwards till the ears.  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author weight : The animals may weigh up to 800 Kgs and mature bull may weigh up to 1 ton. http://www.dairyknowledge.in/article/jaffarabadi http://agritech.tnau.ac.in/expert_system...ffalo.html (05-01-2019, 12:14 AM)Pckts Wrote: It doesn't matter how you slice.I slice the frequency. They eat above ones (exceed 500 kg to ton and africans eat mainly zebra, cape and wildebeest averaging 500 kg and max to ton) almost daily outside PA, rarely nilgai, chinkara and boar. Frequency of Africans hunting those is nowhere near gir lions. Again, I'm not comparing them with a particular lion population and you don't do that either coz it has so called more lions, each and every lion on Africa should be considered not round figured. I'm comparing them with so called "all" african cousins.
In regards to Indian cattle, the ones you see in the cities or villages on the way to reserves are extremely sickly, feeding on trash, they walk the streets without a herd or farmer. Occasionally you see large bulls though and the buffalo are massive but in terms of quantity, the domestic cattle completley outnumber them. Even so, the Buffalo are still outsized compared to Capes.
At least that is how it is from the taj all the way through to Kanha. So while yes, Gir lions prey on large buffalo, they prey on small buffalo and small cattle much more, neither of which they prey on more than Sambar and Chital. And none of which compare to the mega fauna available and preyed on by lions in Africa. Lastly, it sounds like you are saying that some lion sub species are similar size or smaller to Asiatic Lions? If so, I agree but when you take the total population of lions, South and East Africa make the majority and their average size isn't affected enough by W. And C. African Lions to make them smaller than Asiatic Lions. That's why I group Africans together. (05-01-2019, 03:30 AM)Pckts Wrote: Lastly, it sounds like you are saying that some lion sub species are similar size or smaller to Asiatic Lions?yes. if it has to be said "gir lions are smaller than south and east african lions" and "equal in size to west and central african lions". not smaller than all african cousins. once asiatic lions are massive (not talking about gir lions) (05-01-2019, 03:30 AM)Pckts Wrote: In regards to Indian cattle, the ones you see in the cities or villages on the way to reserves are extremely sickly, feeding on trash, they walk the streets without a herd or farmer. Occasionally you see large bulls though and the buffalo are massive but in terms of quantity, the domestic cattle completley outnumber them. Even so, the Buffalo are still outsized compared to Capes.Those stray ones are not abundant but low in number (still lions prey though). Like the problems you stated, they don't live long enough and usually die by eating plastic and shit when they don't get enough food and lions mostly target abundant cattle and buffalo of farmers (like those above) which are tied in the veranda of homes with a rope and hence they can't run... (like this) It is same inside sanctuary with maldhari cattle in thorny bomas.  *This image is copyright of its original author
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