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ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris)
ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris)
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ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris)
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 (01-02-2018, 06:37 PM)Spalea Wrote: @ Here is from your precious Eugene:  *This image is copyright of its original author
How about Antoine-Louis Barye???
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About #1413: OK Barye is a famous animal sculptor (the most famous animal french sculptor) before being a painter... And seeing some tigers and lions each day (he lived close to a zoo - zoo du Jardin des Plantes - in Paris), he couldn't depict the tiger by cheating with the reality...
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COOPER
Spalea added good info about a French painter interested in tigers, which was much appreciated. Keep it civilized and quit crapping. This is a good thread. CASPIAN TIGERS 01 - Altai Mountains (A. Kudrin):  *This image is copyright of its original author 02 - Northeast of Lake Aral (A. Wardle). Found it on 'Kaspitigerforum', a very interesting German forum. According to the one who posted the painting, who unfortunately stopped contributing some years ago, A. Wardle had Turan tigers in mind when he started on this one:  *This image is copyright of its original author 03 - Captive Caspian tigress (S.I. Ognev, 1935). From the same forum as mentioned above. A unique photograph:  *This image is copyright of its original author 04 - Caspian tigress Hamburg Zoo:  *This image is copyright of its original author 05 - Skin of a male tiger from Iran (same forum as mentioned above):  *This image is copyright of its original author 06 - Skin from Lob-Nor (Mongolia):  *This image is copyright of its original author 07 - Skull of an adult male tiger:  *This image is copyright of its original author
"Der Tiger" book written by Vratislav Mazak.
Does anyone knows English version of this book? Is there any English version? I only can find german version in amazon and other websites. (01-03-2018, 09:31 AM)Greatearth Wrote: "Der Tiger" book written by Vratislav Mazak. In my pm, I adviced to buy the English translation of V. Mazak's great book 'Der Tiger'. I did a check and concluded it never was translated. My bad and apologies, Greatearth. The good news is that the German edition is still around. Use the internet to buy it as fast as you can. It's about $ 10,00, not including shipment. I know the book is sold in the US. When you got it, find someone able in German. Follow a course. It will pay dividends, as there are quite a few good books about big cats in German. In the past, German naturalists and hunters often visited the former Sovjet-Union. I know that books about their adventures in the Russian Far East have been published. Most were never translated. If you finished the course, I'll post a list of good books. Another book you should have is 'Die Säugetiere der Sovjet-Union' (A.A. Sludskij and V.G. Heptner, 1972). The German edition was published in 1980. I know there is a English translation. It's more expensive, but it's a great book that has a lot of information on both Amur and Caspian tigers.
South China tiger and Sundarbans tiger
It has nothing to deal with tiger, but it is good knowledge of wildlife in ancient China.  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author I don't know anyone would know "Records of the Grand Historian" book written by Sima Qian. It is a very famous chinese history book: Yellow River civilization to Emperor Wu of Han. If you read this book, then elephant still survived in southern China until BC 500. Chinese, Vietnamese, Thai, and many ethnic people from southeastern Asians lived together in mainland China until 200 AD. That is why Chinese (Mandarin and Cantonese) and South East Asian languages are closely related. Large animals like elephant, rhino, and buffalo were probably survived in southern China until 200 AD. King Zhao of Chu used elephants during war against Wu dynasty and escaped from Wu Zixu. Spring and Autumn period (1600 BC to around 400s BC) to Warring States period 400 BC to 206 BC). Many lands of south of Yangtze river was not even Chinese land during that time: Fujian, Guangxi, Yunnam, Guizhou, southern Hunan, and southern Jiangxi. Today’s south east Asian like vietnmase, thai, Laos, and many ethnic people lived there. Recently discovered that Yue dynasty in China during Spring and Autumn period was probably Vietnamese. South of Yangtze river was covered with immense forest/rainforest/plain during that time. I think Indian elephant (different subspecies compared to Chinese elephant) is still surviving today in Xishuangbanna, Yunnan province.  *This image is copyright of its original author Conflict between human and tiger increased in China since 1500 AD due to human population growth in China. Many land was destroyed, and it probably affect ecology of the South China tiger as well. I don’t know it affect size of the South China tiger. However, it leaded Mao to declared war against the tiger, leopard, wolf, and bear. Was South China tiger before 1600 AD was large and robustly built as Bengal tiger? Especially, where elephant and rhino were still alive in southern China 2300 years ago? A few photos of 20th century male South China tigers were robust and massive like Bengal tiger. Now some examples of the South China tigers from photos  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author These were smaller South China tigers. These three tigers don’t look huge at all, but I am moving to huge south china tiger.  *This image is copyright of its original author Zhangjiajie South China tiger. He was killed on August 13th, 1965. He was total 290 cm long, 143 cm high(!), and 175 kg. He was probably similar built as Bengal tiger from assam. Photo looks like he was a muscular and most robust tiger. Zhangjiajie is very beautiful steep mountain area in Hunam province. It is very famous tourism place in Eastern Asia (Japan, China, and Korea). One of Pokemon movie was also motive from here due to distinct nature.  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author Is it possible that this type of habitat could have this robustly built tiger like in assam? I have never been here, but I think there are many forest between these rocks or mountains. However, I heard Zhangjiajie has many steep area that you have to use cable car to travel.  *This image is copyright of its original author The South China tiger from Huangshan, Anhui killed by Chen Zhiqi in 1950s. It looks a big south China tiger. Huangshan is amazing mountains just like Zhangjiajie. This area is known for its scenery, sunsets in mountain peaks, peculiarly shaped peaks, snows in winter, and views of the clouds from top of mountains. Zhangjiajie, Huangshan, Wuyi mountain are one of the best ones to go if anyone is planning to go visit China to see amazing mountains. I am always wondering how tiger could live these amazing steep mountains and what was the life and ecology of the South China tiger in these two places (Zhangjiajie and Huangshan). Wuyi mountain is a little different, and Chinese biologists are still searching tiger in Wuyi mountain sometimes. The leopard and clouded leopard are still living in Wuyi mountain. Below photos are Huangshan. I don't know how did tiger lived in this type of habitats.  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author Two South China tiger in Rongjiang, Guizhou on March 5th, 1956. Bigger tiger was 165 kg male South China tiger and smaller tiger was 117 kg female South China tiger. Rongjiang tiger and Zhangjiajie tiger looks like robustly built as Wagdoh.  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author Sundarbans tiger “Forest inventories reveal a decline in standing volume of the two main commercial mangrove species – sundari (Heritiera spp.) and gewa (Excoecaria agallocha) — by 40% and 45% respectively between 1959 and 1983.[29][30] Despite a total ban on all killing or capture of wildlife other than fish and some invertebrates, it appears that there is a consistent pattern of depleted biodiversity or loss of species (notably at least six mammals and one important reptile) in the 20th century, and that the "ecological quality of the original mangrove forest is declining". The endangered species that live within the Sundarbans and extinct species that used to be include the royal Bengal tigers, estuarine crocodile, northern river terrapins (Batagur baska), olive ridley sea turtles, Gangetic dolphin, ground turtles, hawksbill sea turtles and king crabs (horse shoe). Some species such as hog deer (Axis porcinus), water buffalos (Bubalus bubalis), barasingha or swamp deer (Cervus duvauceli), Javan rhinoceros (Rhinoceros sondaicus), single horned rhinoceros (Rhinoceros unicornis) and the mugger crocodiles or marsh crocodiles (Crocodylus palustris) started to become extinct in the Sundarbans towards the middle of the 20th century, because of extensive poaching and man hunting by the British.[23] There are other threatened mammal species, such as the capped langurs (Semnopithecus pileatus), smooth-coated otters (Lutrogale perspicillata), Oriental small-clawed otters (Aonyx cinerea), and great Bengal civets (Viverra zibetha)." As for Sundarbans tiger, many of their prey is gone. Just like the South China tiger, Bengal tigers in Sundarbans might have been bigger and some tigers may have been robust when there were plenty animals were in Sundarbans. Today’s Bengal tiger in Sundarbans are slender and decidedly more nimble than the Bengal tiger from India and Nepal. Is it smaller body size is more advantage to survive in swamp forest?  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author
Four Pests Campaign and Great Leap Forward in China
 *This image is copyright of its original author It is about 1.5 meters long South China tiger in Yongchun. Impossible to know its gender, but it was also man-eating tiger. According to statistics from 1953, there were more than 2,000 chineses were attacked by the tiger in both Yongchun and Anxi areas. This was from Wikipedia, it is some basic history of South China tiger and Chinese “Man-eating tiger attacks on humans in South China increased dramatically in the Ming and Qing Dynasties due to the vast human population growth and the consequent encroachment into tiger habitats. About 500 attacks took place during this period, with the average frequency being nearly once a year. According to historical records, all these attacks resulted in deaths numbering from several to over 1000. After the foundation of PRC, deadly tiger attacks could still occur as recently as the 1950s. In 1957, an attack was reported to have killed 32 people in Hunan Province.” South China tiger was becoming dangerous to human since Ming and Qing dynasty. Developing land and increasing human population started bad influenced for the South China tiger. Most of habitat was destroyed and a few wild prey left in 20th century. That is why tiger attacks were very common in China in mid-1900s. This leaded Mao Zedong to declare war against tiger, leopard, bear, and wolf name Great Leap Forward. I feel Han chinese is indeed uncivilized sometimes (There are 52 different ethnic people in China like Tibetan. Han people are the main Chinese). Especially they are keep using tiger bone, rhino horn, and many other traditional medicine along with vietnamese. Mao should have done better way instead of killing entire animals in China. It is sad to hear history of the South China tiger, but the most ridiculous thing was killing Eurasian tree sparrow by Four Pests Campaign (rat, fly, mosquito, sparrow).  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author This bird is Eurasian tree sparrow. It is very cute bird. I think they are still rare in China today. I don’t know in other Asia and Europe, but it’s common bird in Korea.  *This image is copyright of its original author Mao declared killing these birds, because he believed sparrow is eating many crops. Entire Chinese, even including adults and children hunt this bird by Mao’s campaign. Above photo is amount of Eurasian tree sparrows were killed by Chinese per day. Thus, Eurasian tree sparrow heading extinct since chinese killed 210,000,000 (!) numbers of Eurasian tree sparrows just one year of 1958 by Mao’s campaign. A problem was that this bird was main predator of insect like grasshopper. These birds are indeed eating a rice and other crops, but their main prey was crop eating insects. A tremendous numbers of crop eating insects appeared in China and ate all of crops since Eurasian tree sparrows were extinct. China had to face horrible famine name Great Chinese Famine (1959-1961), approximately maximum 40,000,000 Chinese died in 1959-1961 after they wiped out tree sparrow. I think they changed to cockroaches, but I don’t think they can’t control about this along with mosquito and fly. I highly doubt cockroach will become extinct until the Sun will become red giant star. It is a good example of not to destroy nature order.
Basic history of the South China Tiger and specimen
It believed to be more than 4000s South China tigers were in China before 1950s. Decades of massive hunting on wild animals, destroying habitats, development, and rapid human population growth in China leaded South China tiger to extinct in wild along with other animals. Man-eating tiger attacks were very common in China after Japan lost WW2 and left China. Main reason was Chinese eliminated most of wild prey like boar, mountain goat, and deer. It believed 105 tigers, 335 boars, 2157 deer, 415 fox, and 376 rabbit were hunted in Hunan province of 1956. Thus, tiger started target on human to find food. Attacking human and village by tiger was very common during 1950s. In 1957, an attack was reported to have killed 32 people in Hunan Province as official records. South China tiger seems swimming to the numerous islands close from mainland China like the Indochinese tiger in Mekong delta of Vietnam, Bengal tigers in Sundarbans of Bangladesh, and Malayan tiger in Singapore. There was record of one tiger in Xiamen island of Fujian. This South China tiger attacked and killed the Japanese soldiers in 1944 and Chinese in these area still believing this animal as patriot tiger.  *This image is copyright of its original author 290 cm long and around 140~150 kg male South China tiger specimen. He was killed in south of Jiangsu. He is not robust animal as Zhangjiajie tiger in 1965. Zhangjiajie tiger also had large and powerful skull, neck, and body than this male tiger. However, they are the same 290 cm long. This one was 140 kg, but male tiger from Zhangjiajie was 175 kg.  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author South China tiger specimen from Beijing Natural History museum. Would South China tiger and other animals in China will ever back to China one day? Seems like many Chinese caring their tiger and other animals much as panda bear. Many of them are also sad about what Chinese in 1950s did it to the South China tiger.  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author Baby South China tigers and mother. 
@
Quote:Some species such as hog deer (Axis porcinus), water buffalos (Bubalus bubalis), barasingha or swamp deer (Cervus duvauceli), Javan rhinoceros (Rhinoceros sondaicus), single horned rhinoceros (Rhinoceros unicornis) and the mugger crocodiles or marsh crocodiles (Crocodylus palustris) started to become extinct in the Sundarbans towards the middle of the 20th century, because of extensive poaching and man hunting by the British. Notice how the all the species that went extinct were mostly adapted to freshwater... The reason is pretty famous amongst my people. I've never seen those rivers, but still talking about them feels nostalgic. Late 19th century saw rearrangement of southern Bengal's rivers, drying up of the mighty Adi Ganga & Saraswati as she changed her course westwards. Today it's a narrow channel, but once used to be upto 5 kilometres wide. Most of Kolkata sits on her riverbed & is prone to waterlogging.  *This image is copyright of its original author This not-so-sharp map might help. Try to see how it fed the Old Bidyadhari river through Tolly's Nala, which in turn fed Sundarban's creeks & channels.  *This image is copyright of its original author Another was the Ichamati river at Indo-Bangladesh border that lost most of the water, as up north the proper Ganges (named Padma) started sending most of her water eastwards... instead of the west-turning Mathabhanga that fed her.  *This image is copyright of its original author As her distributaries fed most of Sundarban's major rivers, it started depleting the Sundarban area of sweet water. The salinity of the region's river rose & most species that couldn't adapt.. died. It's physically impossible to hunt a species to extinction there, especially back then. PS: Sorry about the river rant in this thread. But if Sundarban is concerned, they are all interconnected. Mod please don't delete...
Rishi
I copied those 2 paragraphs from wikipedia. I do know environmental changed affect negative in Sundarbans. However, there is some exceptions. Nature likes rock, mountain, swamp, river, glacier and many other things are changing by decades and centuries. Main reason of Sundarbans may have been human population growth, dam, and using too much on freshwater may have been changed freshwater in sundarbans. However, you can't denying british did many terrible things to wildlife in sundarbans, entire india, and other colonies along with other western european and american were over hunt animals in other continents. And I don't know freshwater/saltwater are the reason of rhino has disappeared from habitats. It might have been other reasons like hunting as well. The Javan rhino, Sumatran rhino, and one horned rhino widely distributed from India, Indochina, Southern China, Malayan peninsula, and Indonesian islands. Main problem of Sundarbans today is that overpopulation. I remember I saw documentary of fisherman is keep heading to tiger habitats to find fishes since fish in village has been depleted by overpopulation. Entire world really need to stop having a kid more than 1 or 2, especially muslim and catholic nations. I don't know Bangladesh is even conserving the sundarbans tiger. One PhD student from Bangladesh, he said it is very diffiuclt to track tiger there (also find pirates as well). Not even properly studied tigers in these areas recently. (01-06-2018, 11:25 AM)Greatearth Wrote: Rishi These internet sites & documentaries keep spreading bad info by copying from each other while propagating myths. Sundarbans is one of the very few things the British weren't responsible for... Rivers here keep altering their courses naturally every few hundred years, naturally. There were no dams 150 years ago, population was also very low. The overfishing problem has been solved long ago. Read it here: #8. The people going on for fishing & honey collecting had also reduced by more than 85% & completely stopped in the Tiger reserve area, atleast on Indian side, due to constant efforts to generate alternative lifestyle for locals.
Rishi
1 I was referring China is building many dams in Tibetan rivers flowing to India and South East Asia. I do know China built many dams in these areas. Many countries in South East Asia (I heard some people/politicians in India also dislike China because of many things like China is helping Pakistan) hating China and they also dislike Chinese descents in their country. I do know hunting in Sundarbans was very difficult in 19th century. However, I do remember hunting story in Sundarbans from book. There is one extinct bird name Pink headed duck (Rhodonessa caryophyllacea). The Pink headed duck was was mainly found from the Sundarbans. It believed they are extinct from hunting. I do believe hunting was not the only reason, but it is impossible to know the truth since this animal is extinct like 60 years ago.  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author 2 Then it is a good news for Sundarbans tiger. The last time I heard about them was there was only 100 tigers are remaining in Sundarbans due to poaching and people are keep entering tiger's habitat (2016). Is there any ecology research going on in Sundarbans tiger in India/Bangladesh and Himalayan tiger from Bhutan? Studying these Bengal tigers could be valuable to understand other tiger subspecies from extinct area. Example like studying the Bengal tiger in Himalayan mountains could understand some basic life of the South China tiger lived in Huangshan and Zhangjiajie mountains. Why? Because both of these areas are steep habitat.  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author The Himalayan tiger from Bhutan. Looks like these Bengal tigers are well adapted in steep Himalayan mountains in Bhutan. They don't look massive and robust body like Wagdoh, Madla, and other tigers from India.  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author Zhangjiajie. One of Pokémon movie was motive from Zhangjajie due to distinct and unique nature.  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author Huangshan. Many of Chinese tiger in mountain drawings are based on nature of Huangshan since these mountains reminiscent as a legendary land. It is fair that studying ecology and morphology of the Bengal tiger from Himalayan mountains in Bhutan could understand some stuffs for the other tiger subspecies lived in steep mountain areas like the Caspian tiger and South China tiger. One question was how come these types of environments could produce a stocky and robust tiger like Zhangjiajie tiger in 1965. A tiger probably preferred flat area more than steep mountain. Zhangjiajie tiger. He had a large skull, powerful neck and he has robust body as well  *This image is copyright of its original author 3 The most interesting I heard from Sundarbans was fishermen are using otters (Smooth coated otter) to catching a fish. I think otter also warns a tiger is near boat (If otter doesn't want to catch a fish and they want to be back from boat). From that documentary I mentioned of fisherman is keep entering tiger habitat. Fishermen decided to enter tiger habitat since they couldn't find any fish. Owner of boat was worried to go deep forest because of tiger, but one fisherman was so stubborn to catching a fish. Fishermen released otters in water to catch some fishes. But otters family was refused to chase fishes since they naturally sensed (or probably saw) a large powerful predator was near fishermen and otters (same as the animals could senses tsunami, and they escape before tsunami is coming). They just wanted to be on the boats and instead of swimming in water. Fishermen gave up on fishing since otters were strongly refused to chase fishes. Apparently, there was one tiger was watching over them after fishermen took otters to boat. But that tiger just watched them and disappeared into forest.  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author Baby Bengal tiger and mother. Or Family of Sundarbans tiger. (01-07-2018, 05:28 AM)Greatearth Wrote: Then it is a good news for Sundarbans tiger. Last time I heard about them was there was only 100 tigers are remaining in Sundarbans due to poaching and people are keep entering tiger's habitat (2016). Anyway, otter-fishing is strongly forbidden on the Indian side today & even possession pet otters is unheard of anymore. The Bangladesh side is pretty neglected though... To put thing into perspective. Here's the Protected Area on Indian side:  *This image is copyright of its original author The 2500km² tiger reserve has about 70-90 tigers & the fringe islands to the west (reserve forest) has another 20-25. Royal Bengal Tiger count in Sunderbans is 103 And here's the Protected Area in Bangladesh side:  *This image is copyright of its original author Of the 6000 km² that remains of their forests, less than 350 km² (land) is Protected Area. The rest is Reserve Forest which are still harvested, risking both tigers & humans. The tiger numbers on that side is estimated at 105. Here's the respective tiger densities:  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author The previous census had pegged the numbers at 275 & 440 in Indian & Bangladeshi side respectively using the flawed pugmark-method (& also probably inflated a bit). In India such numbers were doubted & we swiftly switched to camera-trapping. That have us the, much lower, true numbers... Now, when western media reports it, they ALWAYS have a headline like: "Bangladesh's (in wrong pronunciation) Sundarbans (worse pronunciation) left with only 100 tigers, down from 440 few years ago." Erm... NO! What's worse is that India's national media copies from them & show the same horse****. Only the small local media houses care to do a proper study & present accurate story.
Female Indochinese Tiger , weighing 120kg.
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