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ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris)
ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris)
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ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris)
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 (08-24-2017, 02:56 AM)Greatearth Wrote:Boar in India come in all shapes and sizes, the big adult male boars are extremely impressive, about the size of a Chital Stag in frame but much more robust in the body but most females and youngsters and sub adult males aren't that impressive, they are a bit larger than warthog but still easy prey size for adult tigers.(08-24-2017, 02:07 AM)Diamir2 Wrote: Tiger wasn't injured in the fight. 
Pckts
The main subject is that 7-8 years old tiger didn't died because of boar. It was already very sick tiger. I think tiger can take down big male boar without really serious trouble. There is a video of 16 months old small tigress killing the big male boar. Another video of tiger is hunting huge wild boar, but boar escaped. I seen captive South China tiger is killing the big size male boar. Think of tiger is taking down larger cow, buffalo, crocodile, and gaur. There is a record of tiger hunted the rhino (This is extremely rare case). Jim Corbett saw 2 tigers are hunting elephant together. Those animals are larger, stronger, and more dangerous prey than male boar. But anything can happen like tiger is losing in battle. In this case, there is one Korean guy in 1950s. He beat up the 2 meters long Amur leopard with bare hand. This is nothing different.  (08-24-2017, 09:17 AM)Greatearth Wrote: Pckts There are several records of tiger hunting rhinoes and elephants. Checkout "Tiger Predation" thread. 
I believe the range of possibilities is very large. Of course there are some records of tigers hunting and killing some rhinos and elephants. Even if we neglect the fact that these big targeted preys were often females, or some sick and weakened individuals. When somebody such Peter tells that a wild big male boar of Amur is very difficult to hunt even for an adult tiger, I have no difficulty to believe him. Just look at the photos, big wild siberian boars are very impressive animals...
Because on the other side we can see here some videos showing the big difficulties to kill even a sambar or a chital for some adult tigers. As Peter says the distances travelled by an Amur tiger in order to kill a prey are very long, much longer than in India for example. The felid can be tired and the only one preys it meets are the most difficult to put down (adult boars and bears in the Amur country). Thus the amur tiger are used to kill such preys, but often for killing them they are not in the best conditions (tired, weakened, starving...). In a way, it's a hunt under extreme conditions.  (08-24-2017, 02:07 AM)Diamir2 Wrote: Tiger wasn't injured in the fight. I never saw such a long list of deficiences as a result of a disease. Although close to death when he fought the big wild boar, the tiger killed him and wasn't injured. Champions League. Cancer of the pancreas isn't uncommon in captive Amur tigers. Most of those affected were males between 7-11 years of age. V. Mazak (1983) wrote about 2 males in the Prague Zoo. One of them, an 11-year old male of 319 cm. in total length in a straight line, lost a lot of weight during the illness. Estimated at 250-260 kg. in his prime, he was 192 kg. immediately after death. The second male, not much shorter than his father, was 128 kg. immediately after death. Another large male (Artis Zoo, Amsterdam) also perished as a result of cancer of the pancreas. He too lost a lot of weight during the disease. Many thanks for the report.
TIGERS AND WILD BOARS - 2
When reading the last posts, I thought I saw a few misconceptions about tigers and large prey animals. Not saying wild boars were completely dismissed, but it seemed close at times. As we don't want to create an incorrect picture, I decided for a few scans. There's no question that tigers attack and kill large prey animals in India. There're well-documented reports about tigers killing rhinos, gaurs and even elephants. The information on tigers targeting rhinos (females with cubs in particular) is somewhat disturbing, because of the low number of rhinos in India. Although tigers succeed on most occasions, things can go wrong at times. Tigers have been killed by bears, wild boars, gaurs and elephants. No question whatsoever. The stories below were written by people in the know. Some of them actually saw a fight from start to finish. a - Gaur and tiger  *This image is copyright of its original author b - Wild boar and tiger b1 - The Luckvalley tiger This tiger was shot by Wiele between 1900-1910 in southern India. Have a look at the gun and the tiger. He wasn't measured or weighed, but it was a giant. In spite of his size, a large male wild boar took his kill when he was out for a drink. Wiele didn't see the fight when the tiger returned to his kill, but he heard every detail. The boar, who had chosen his position wisely, was able to keep the tiger at bay. A draw maybe, but one in favour of the boar.  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author b2 - Southern India. This was written by a man in the know:  *This image is copyright of its original author b3 - Northern India Carrington, a Forest Officer, was in Kumaon for a long time and he saw a lot. Read the part about a fight between a boar and a tiger:  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author c - Conclusion There are more reliable observations about tigers and wild boars in India. A lot more. Wild boars seldom exceed 300 lbs. nowadays, but it was quite different a century ago. I read plenty of reports about boars well exceeding 400 pounds and, in northeastern India, well over that mark (up to 600 lbs.). Old male boars of that size were seldom, if ever, attacked. Information from Russia is few and far between. What I read, however, suggests that Ussuri wild boars are larger than those in India. In spite of that, tigers hunt them. More so than in India. Specialists often 'herd' a sounder until all animals have been killed. I know that old male wild boars live on their own most of the time, but they are hunted as well. Although they hunt wild boars more often than Indian tigers, Amur tigers seldom perish in fights. In fact, I only know of two cases. One of these was a female. Happened a long time ago. This should tell you something. For some reason, Amur tigers are capable to take even large wild boars. If we add bears, the conclusion is that Amur tigers seem to be specialists on dangerous animals. Every disadvantage (tough conditions, long distances, few large prey animals and deep snow) has an advantage (survivors often develop into specialists). But I could be wrong. (08-24-2017, 08:45 PM)peter Wrote: TIGERS AND WILD BOARS - 2 I have no doubt that boar could get over 400lbs in northeastern India, especially in the days of undisturbed land. But in C. India, at least the parks I went to, the big boar, which are few, weren't near that size I'd estimate. But a few things to note, big male boar are rarely seen with the group, in fact, boar are very skittish to begin with and the big males probably didn't get that way by being easily visible, so they tend to be far off and not want to be seen, they'll move off once they see the vehicles coming so I never got a great look at one. But the ones I saw, I'd guess they were close to the 200-300lbs at most, they are very impressive and sturdy in their frame. This is a good sized female with a young male who was trying to mate with her, she's about the size of a Labrador but a little more thick, the big males are about 1.5 - 2x's the size of her with a much denser body and "mane."  *This image is copyright of its original author When it comes to tiger predation on Gaur, there is nothing to discuss, Gaur are a favorite amongst them. Tigers make Gaur kills regularly, every shape and size, obviously big males are much more rare but they are preyed upon as well. I'm still shocked that they are able to prey upon a prime male Gaur, no matter the tiger, the Gaur is a massive beast, so it still surprises me, but 90% of Gaur are much more modest and it doesn't surprise me one bit that they are on the menu.  (08-24-2017, 07:50 PM)peter Wrote: I never saw such a long list of deficiences as a result of a disease. Of course. If the tiger was with paralysed back part of the body BEFORE the attack he will be not capable to catch and kill the wild boar. Its obvious and logical. Even for totally healthy tiger is not easy to catch a boar... that need some speed and mobility and a tiger on wheelchair cant do this job....
TIGERS AND WILD BOARS - 3 - RUSSIA - FOUR SCENARIOS
Based on the autopsy report, one can conclude that the tiger would have been hardly able to move, let alone stalk or run. This means that it would have been impossible for him to get close to the wild boar. In spite of that, they met. It was to be a violent meeting that resulted in a dead boar. The tiger, for some reason, wasn't injured. Remarkable. The question is how they met and why the meeting resulted in a deadly struggle. I see 4 scenarios for now. a - Ambush (tiger) Maybe the tiger had dragged himself to a game track before the boar appeared. A tiger, even a large one, can disappear into thin air. Maybe the boar wasn't aware of the tiger and maybe he walked straight into the trap. But the tiger and the boar met in winter. Snow had been falling. In winter, Amur tigers have a pale coat. But pale is different from white and so are black stripes. It's likely that the boar saw the tiger, that is. Also remember that boars have a good sense of smell. For this reason, an ambush, although possible, seems unlikely. b - Animosity (boar) Let's assume for a moment that the boar saw the tiger first. Also assume he noticed the tiger was incapacitated. In the Russian Far East, it's more than likely that wild boars and tigers meet at some stage in their life. If a wild boar meets an adult tiger, chances are it will run. A large and seasoned old warrior, however, might decide to use the opportunity. Let's assume the boar initiated an attack. If he did, he would have been able to strike from a direction that would have resulted in a big advantage. It's also likely that the attack would have resulted in damage. To the tiger. But he had no injuries. Furthermore, the story would have been printed in the snow. Finally, we have to add that the boar was killed. Not the tiger. All in all, I'd say that an attack directed by animosity seems unlikely. c - Curiosity (boar) Those who know about wild animals and their habits often wrote about curiosity. Herbivores in particular seem to be curious animals, even in the face of danger. It's best seen on the African plains. When a pride of lions attacks a herd of wildebeest and bring one down, the others stop fleeing. Not seldom, they return to the scene of the crime to investigate the situation. Some animals, like elephants and buffalos, try to assist the one that was taken. In India, many animals living in small groups or herds (sambar, cheetal, gaur and wild boar) show similar behaviour. When the boar, driven by curiosity (the tiger most probably appeared different), would have approached the tiger for a closer look and the tiger would have had the chance to strike, he would have had a very big advantage. Big enough to get to a death grip almost immediately. Remember that the tiger was capable to drag himself to a depression after the struggle, meaning he still was a powerful animal just before death struck. Also remember that the boar would have been cautious, but, perhaps, unprepared. Although this scenario is far-fetched, it seems more likely than the first two. d - Displacement (boar) Big cats are strictly carnivorous hunters. They walk the edge and developed a fitting attitude. Wild boars are omnivores. If a boar would get the opportunity to move to protein, however, he wouldn't think twice. Same for a male bear. The difference between bears and boars is that bears can hunt (to a degree). Bears also are larger and, not seldom, hunt wild boars. Boars can kill small animals (I saw documentaries in which they digged out rabbits or preyed on fawns), but that would come under 'opportunity'. There is a difference between opportunity and professional hunting. So how get to protein if you are a boar or a bear? There are three answers. One is dumps, two is fish and three is displacement. Although salmon are to be had in some parts of Amur river basin, displacement is as popular. An Amur (or Ussuri) brown bear can displace a big cat and my guess is a large male wild boar also is able to displace a big cat at times. They did it in India a century ago and there's no reason to assume they wouldn't be able to do it in Russia. The condition is size, but attitude also is important. As both take time, only males would be involved in displacement. Old males. Displacing takes two; a professional hunter and a professional displacer. When a displacer meets with succes and develops over time, chances are he will extend to male tigers sooner or later. Displacing a male Amur tiger, however, is risky business. It not only takes size, nerve and experience. The displacer also needs to be able to absorb an attack and retaliate. Bluffing isn't going to do the job, that is. At some stage, contact can't be avoided. But a struggle leaves a story in the snow and often results in injuries and the tiger wasn't injured. Again I would get to 'possible, but unlikely'. e - Conclusion The autopsy report clearly said that the tiger would have been hardly able to move, let alone run and struggle. It also said he was very ill. Close to death, however, his chances suddenly turned. For a moment. During the struggle with the old male wild boar, the tiger wasn't injured. Not typical for a life and death struggle, one would think. Remarkable if we add the tiger was severely affected by a deadly disease. All in all, one would think that the boar was killed fast. After the struggle, the tiger dragged himself to a depression close to a road, where he perished. So how did the tiger and the boar meet and why did the meeting result in a deadly struggle in which the tiger, in spite of his terrible condition, did not sustain any injury? An ambush can't be ruled out, as the tiger would have been hungry. As he would have had knowledge about game trails and traffic, chances are he would have known about a good hide. If we add that wild boars are quite noisy and not that attentive, the boar could have walked into a trap. However. An ambush requires movement, speed and force, especially when the victim is an old male wild boar. Remember male boars can exceed the weight of a male tiger in this region. They also often have large tusks. Although possible, an ambush seems unlikely. As two of the other three scenarios also seem unlikely, death by curiosity, no matter how far-fetched, can't be excluded. Curiosity killed the cat, they say. That, however, would hold for all animals directed by curiosity, no? Wild boars as well? Yes. They in particular. Why? Wild boars are nose-directed animals always out for a bargain. But why would a boar on his own try to get close to a tiger? Maybe old male boars have a lot of confidence? Curiosity killed the boar, then? Cat killed a boar driven by curiosity could be more accurate. But (over)confidence could have been as important in this case. And never trust a tiger in a wheelchair.
For those interested in wild boars pls check section "Bears as predators"
I found an interesting information about those tiger. In the official website of the Khingan National Reserve (the place where the tiger-boar accident occure) is writhen than after computer tomography was discovered that vertebrae L7 of the tiger was broken:
http://khingan.ru/view_news.php?id=83 "Недавно к нам в руки попало письмо Дугласа Армстронга, директора по ветеринарным вопросам зоопарка и океанариума "Omaha Henry Doorly Zoo and Aquarium”, советника по ветеринарии Североамериканской программы сохранения тигров. В письме в числе прочего говорится следующее: "На снимках компьютерной томографии видно, что как минимум один позвонок, вероятно L7, перед тазовой костью, сломан. Радиолог, специализирующийся на диагностике и животных, и людей, смог подтвердить этот факт. Данное повреждение четко видно на множестве предоставленных снимков. Есть большая вероятность того, что и другие позвонки, и возможно, межпозвоночные диски также повреждены, но подтвердить это по имеющимся снимкам невозможно". Translation: "Not long ago we got letter from Duglas Armstrong, veterinary director in the zoo "Omaha Henry Doorly Zoo and Aquarium"... In the letter is written: "in the images from computer tomography is visible, that as minimum as one vertebrae, most probably Vertebrae No L7, in the front of hip bone is BROKEN. Radiolog specialised on diagnostics of animals, confirmed that fact. That damage is cleary visible on the multiply photos. There is a big possibility that some other vertebraes and probably, intravertebral discks are also damaged, but to confirme this on the basis of the images we posses is inpossible" So its clear that that damage has nothing to do with the cancer. Viatceslav Kostrikin, the Deputy Director on science work in Chingan Nature Reserve has made this statement: "Despite discovered during opening of the body metastazes from the canser, the tiger has got a traumas during his struggle with the wild boar and with such a traumas (damages) for the wild animal was no more possible to live in the nature". "Таким образом, несмотря на обнаруженные у тигра при вскрытии метастазы, причиной получения им травм, несовместимых с жизнью в дикой природе, стала схватка с кабаном." Also is written that before the struggle the tiger had no visible problems with the movements of his hind legs and he rich the wild boar with four jumps. After the struggle the tiger was with paraslised hund legs and tail: http://www.amur.info/column/yaroshenko/5516 «Тигр без видимых нарушений функции задних конечностей подошёл к кабаньей тропе, ведущей к гайну (логово – Прим. ред.), и сел у неё в засаду. Через некоторое время по тропе проследовал секач, направляясь к гайну. В четыре прыжка хищник настиг жертву. Кабана тигр оставил на том же месте, где и задавил, отходя на отдых к гайну, расположенному в 10 метрах. Возможно, позже тигр перетащил останки кабана к гайну, где и доедал его. Но, возможно, что тигр перетащил на гайно оставшиеся фрагменты после возвращения. С гайна тигр сошёл уже с парализованными задними конечностями и пополз вверх по левобережью ручья Весёлого, придерживаясь склонов» So, the Peter's statement No 1235 was 100% correct! Diamir2 also correctly noticed that if the tiger was totally healthy and if didn't suffered from advanced cancer he most probably could easily kill the boar. Even the Ussurian wild boar is as strong as grizzly bear the tigers normally know how to deal with them since they are their natural food.
TIGERS AND WILD BOARS - 4 - RUSSIA - A FEW QUESTIONS
Another post with good information! Thanks again, Wolverine. I'll print everything you and Diamir2 posted and will read it again. As the info we have seems to be contradictory in some respects, I decided for a few questions before I'll start on the summary. It would be much appreciated if you or Diamir2 could answer them. Here we go. 01 - Based on what I read, the tiger was much affected by the effects of cancer. Did it start in the pancreas? 02 - The list of deficiencies (referring to the autopsy report posted by Diamir2) was impressive. Based on what I read, the conclusion is that the tiger was very close to death. In spite of his severe problems, he decided for a hunt. Before he ambushed the boar, he wasn't paralysed. Correct? 03 - The tiger, most probably close to starvation because he had been unable to hunt, selected a hiding place close to a well-used trail. When the boar approached, the tiger went for him. He needed 4 jumps to get to the boar. Correct? 04 - Although it was initially assumed that the tiger wasn't injured in the struggle that followed, a new analysis (referring to the letter from the USA) suggested that the tiger was injured by the boar. Based on what I read, it seems the boar was able to free himself from the grip of the tiger. He then decided for an attack. Based on the injuries of the tiger (pelvis and, perhaps, spine), it's likely that the tiger was hit from behind. This means the boar most probably didn't go down when he was attacked. The tiger did and, perhaps as a result of the disease, wasn't able to get to his feet in time. After injuring the tiger, the boar most probably continued the attack. During the struggle that followed, the tiger was able to kill the boar. Anything known on the method used by the tiger? 05 - After the boar had been killed, the tiger attempted to drag the boar away. Although he succeeded to a degree, the tiger quickly quit the attempt. Was the boar eaten? The photograph of the skull suggests that he was, but I'm not sure. 06 - Shortly after he had killed the boar, the tiger left. Did they find out why? 07 - Although unable to use his hindlegs after the struggle, the tiger apparently was able to use his front legs. This means he dragged himself away from the scene of the struggle. After covering about 10 km. in this way, the tiger was unable to continue. Did they detect where he was going? Is it true the had moved quite a distance because he descended a hill? 08 - As he was quickly found by researchers (he apparently was still alive at that stage), it's likely he had been collared in the past. Any details known about this male? 09 - When he was found, the tiger was still alive. He died shortly after. Correct? 10 - As they didn't understand what had happened, there was an autopsy. Apparently, they didn't see the broken bones. This was the reason they initially concluded that he had died as a result of his disease. Correct? 11 - For some reason, it was decided to contact specialists in Idaho (USA) after the autopsy. Why was that? 12 - As it isn't likely that the tiger was transported to Idaho, it is assumed they sent X-rays. Correct? 13 - The Americans concluded that the tiger had been injured during the struggle with the boar. Although severely injured, the injuries didn't result in his death. He perished as a result of his disease. The cause of death was a lack of oxygen. Correct? 14 - Humans suffering from cancer often do not perish as a result of the disease, but as a result of the devastating effects. Not seldom, the disease rapidly spreads, affecting many organs, bones and muscles. Is it possible that the tiger had been affected to such a degree that he was close to complete immobility just before he attacked the boar? Could the disease have resulted in muscle atrophy and fragile bones? 15 - Is anything known about the boar? Age? Weight? 16 - Was the tiger that featured in this story the only one who suffered from cancer or are more cases known?
And one final detail. Even the tiger had internal skeleton fractures (broken at leat one vertebra) he had no any visible outside injuries as Diamir2 mentioned. Even prawling he didn't leave any blood trail. As we noticed from the skull of that wild boar he was huge (his body mass assessed to around 180 kg) but his canine teeth were relatively small. So probably when the boar hit him in the spine he didn't make any flesh cut. Sherlok Holmes.
(08-26-2017, 08:42 AM)Wolverine Wrote: And one final detail. Even the tiger had internal skeleton fractures (broken at leat one vertebra) he had no any visible outside injuries as Diamir2 mentioned. Even prawling he didn't leave any blood trail. As we noticed from the skull of that wild boar he was huge (his body mass assessed to around 180 kg) but his canine teeth were relatively small. So probably when the boar hit him in the spine he didn't make any flesh cut. Sherlok Holmes. Peter, I am just a humble citizen enjoying his weekend... Probably it would be better to direct your questions towards the administration of Chingan National Reserve. But with your permission I would try to tell what exactly happen that dramatic winter. So: THE FACTS 1. The tiger suffered from advanced cancer 2. He had fracture, broken part of the vertebral column 3. He had no visible external injuries and wounds 4. Before the struggle with the male wild boar his movements were relatively OK, he was able to walk and even to jump, but after he left the dead boars body his hind legs and tail were paralysed he start to prawl THE PLOT Winter of 2014. Somewhere in the debts of Russian snowy forests a reall Shakespearean drama is going on. Lonely male tiger suffering from cancer is staying under the trees. He is hungry and desperate. He is stalking the animals without result. In one moment a huge adult male wild boar appear close to him. In different circimstances even the tigers avoid adult male boars, who could be extremely dangerous but this tiger is desparately hungry and decide to take the risk of attack. After 4 jumps he is reaching the boar and succeed to kill him, but during the struggle due to declined health, strength and mobility as the result of tiger's desease the boar managed to puch him in the vertebral column breaking it (or maybe during the struggle the tiger hit his back in some stone) without making external wound. This cause paralysation of the tiger's back part of body and he leave the place of the hunt prawling his hind legs and tail. Even before meeting with the boar tiger was not too far from the dead but know his misery become total. The tiger is rescued by biologists but soon he die as result of the cancer metastases. That's really vary sad story both for the tiger and for the boar, but the history of Mother Russia is full with such sad stories. Lets move to something more joyfull. The story was written by Mister Sherlock Holmes, 221 Baker street.
TWO INTRIGUING STORIES FROM MOTHER RUSSIA AND ONE FROM OLD AFRICA
a - The stories 1 - It started with the old and desperate male lion close to starvation who attacked an adult female Cape buffalo. Although hardly able to do anything, he hang on for a very long time. He just wouldn't give in. Only when the last spark of energy had left him, did he collapse. The buffalo later also perished. Tenacity. 2 - Than a young adult male Amur tiger got headlines. They found him close to a boar in the snow and thought he had been killed by a brown bear. The autopsy report suggested something else had happened, so the question was what. In the end, it seems like he was surprised and quickly killed by another male tiger. Trespassing, illegal hunting or overplaying his hand? We don't know. What we know is he died hard and fast. This means he hadn't been careful. Overconfidence? 3 - And then there is the intriguing story about the male Amur tiger and the male wild boar. Severely affected by a devastating disease and close to starvation some three years ago, a male Amur tiger in his prime decided for one more hunt. His last hunt. Although most probably hardly able to last in a struggle for more than a minute or so, he got to the boar, also a big male. As the power needed wasn't quite there anymore, the boar was able to free himself and decided to return the favour. The first blow, most probably from behind, broke a number of bones in the region of the pelvis of the tiger. Encouraged by the result, the boar decided for a follow-up. It was to be his last one, as it enabled to dying tiger to fasten his fangs in his throat. After the struggle, the tiger rose, only to find that his hindlegs had given in. Moving himself with his mighty upper arms only, he dragged himself for about 10 km. to a depression close to a road, where he lay down in the snow to rise no more. Although found in time, they couldn't do anything for him. The cancer had finished him. Tenacity. b - Aftermath Reading these stories, especially the first and last one, can only result in amazement. The last story in particular is quite something. I talked about it with friends. A lot of them. As the debate heated up, more of them joined. The question was what could have happened. Not one came up with an answer backed by all. My guess is a documentary in which the tiger and the boar feature would draw millions. Won't happen, as humans don't care that much about wild animals. A geat pity. c - Sherlock Excellent work and many thanks. I'll write a full report for the client soon. |
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