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Lions of Sabi Sands
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 (12-12-2024, 10:51 PM)sunless Wrote:(12-12-2024, 10:47 PM)BA0701 Wrote:(12-12-2024, 09:20 PM)Rance56 Wrote: im new to following lions, maybe been following along for about 2 years, an mainly watching youtube videos. recently found this site. just curious if any of yall would be willing to post a list of your opinion on like the top 5-10 greatest fighters of all time regardless of location. if i was building a coalition of lets say 6 for lion warfare, it would be makhulu, zig zag mbiri, LK115, sekekama, mr t, and kinky tail. They are proof that toughness can indeed, at times, get you far in the lion's world. Shaka remains, possibly, the toughest, meanest, looking lion I have ever seen. Where as Scar has quite the opposite appearance to my eyes, and his jaw injury did not do anything to alleviate that. He looks laid back, mellow, if you will. But he is living proof, that appearances can often be deceiving.   (12-12-2024, 09:20 PM)Rance56 Wrote: im new to following lions, maybe been following along for about 2 years, an mainly watching youtube videos. recently found this site. just curious if any of yall would be willing to post a list of your opinion on like the top 5-10 greatest fighters of all time regardless of location. if i was building a coalition of lets say 6 for lion warfare, it would be makhulu, zig zag mbiri, LK115, sekekama, mr t, and kinky tail. Sekekama is a tough one to comment on, I have no doubt him and his brother TornNose are great fighters but majority of them fights weren’t witnessed. Off the top of my head, the only lions I’ve heard about him fighting were the resident 4 male lion coaltion who controlled Marsh Pride, can’t remember their name but they were ousted by the 5 Selindas (the original coalition of Sekekama and TornNose with their brothers). He also fought his 3 Rebel sons quite a few times, even saving a younger son from his older brothers, then fought the younger brothers the Renegades too. On top of that him and TornNose fought the 2 Mababe males, TornNose got caught after being chased but survived, and are believed to have ousted another coalition of 2 / 3 males who shortly controlled the Northern Pride. Out of all these fights, only one of them was caught on camera, the one against the Mababe males. As I said Sekekama and TornNose come off second best but they were around 13 in that sighting compared to the very aggressive Mababe males in their prime. We also don’t know how it ended, just that TornNose somehow survived it.  (12-11-2024, 09:29 PM)Mapokser Wrote: @Rance56 for all we know, no, lions are the same size anywhere with a healthy population. (12-12-2024, 10:59 PM)BA0701 Wrote:(12-12-2024, 10:51 PM)sunless Wrote:(12-12-2024, 10:47 PM)BA0701 Wrote:(12-12-2024, 09:20 PM)Rance56 Wrote: im new to following lions, maybe been following along for about 2 years, an mainly watching youtube videos. recently found this site. just curious if any of yall would be willing to post a list of your opinion on like the top 5-10 greatest fighters of all time regardless of location. if i was building a coalition of lets say 6 for lion warfare, it would be makhulu, zig zag mbiri, LK115, sekekama, mr t, and kinky tail. i think i choose Scar due to him being the bigger of the two, without knowing alot about their individual endeavors. Glad that the jaw injury doesnt seem to slow him down, looks awful (12-11-2024, 09:29 PM)Mapokser Wrote: @Rance56 for all we know, no, lions are the same size anywhere with a healthy population. (12-12-2024, 11:32 PM)KM600 Wrote:(12-12-2024, 09:20 PM)Rance56 Wrote: im new to following lions, maybe been following along for about 2 years, an mainly watching youtube videos. recently found this site. just curious if any of yall would be willing to post a list of your opinion on like the top 5-10 greatest fighters of all time regardless of location. if i was building a coalition of lets say 6 for lion warfare, it would be makhulu, zig zag mbiri, LK115, sekekama, mr t, and kinky tail. yes i wasnt sure if alot of it wasnt just tv and internet fame that was embellished. though i fealt he was a large, dominant, aggressive male, that was able to stay that way for some time so must of been a force. others that i were wondering if they belong on such a list would be olibor, hairy belly, renoka, scrapper, and more recently red road and makhunga. also wondering if jessie the outlaw could stand toe to toe with these males. and i wonder if most are all equally formidable and it just comes down to age an numbers. 
@Tr1x24 based on weights from eastern african lions, mostly, but also, like I said, guides and photographers who spent years in both areas claims there isn't a real difference in their sizes.
But also, the largest lionesses ever weighed, anywhere, weren't even 180kg with an empty stomach, while average Kruger male ( or truly any other males from any areas ) is around 190kg. Seenka here doesn't even have a bigger head, by the looks of it, than the female, and isn't impressive next to her in any other way. Even if she was the largest lioness ever seen, Seenka would still be around below average in comparison. Seenka and his Sankai brothers are often called the biggest and most impressive in Mara, but they are not big in body, only mane, which makes them look bigger, like Rob says, but when you see them next to other lions, even females, you realize they aren't. People also think the Crater lions are the largest lions or cats in the world because they get fooled by the mane, when we have chest girth measurements from them and it was estimated they may be around 212kg, which is certainly above average, but we're talking about an area of only 50 or so lions, even Mapogo weighed 230kg with partial stomach content, but anyone would say any crater lion is twice as big as Mapogo, when in reality they'd be close in size. Many people didn't accept Ximpoko weighed 283kg with a full stomach ( estimated 253kg empty ) because "bald lion looking as big as Mr.T only", many also didn't thought BDM was as big as we know he is now, he had a relatively small mane and didn't strike one as that bulky, still when darted by Timbavati, was stated to be the biggest they had ever darted despite Ximpoko and 1/3 Timbavati males weighing in the 250kgs range. His skull was the third largest ever measured, bigger than Dr.Kock's 272kg eastern lion. Not to mention the largest wild lion ever weighed, shared here by Pckts a while ago, Mk-143, as the vet said nobody did even know about him, a complete random, but he weighed 287kg and had insane measurements. People see healthy, well-fed, thick-maned Mara lions and assume they are bigger than the short-maned, more seen with empty bellies, Kruger males, but when you look deeper at it and has a keener eye to see size, you'll realize these Mara lions aren't any bigger on average than any other lion populations.  (12-12-2024, 08:26 PM)KM600 Wrote:(12-12-2024, 08:01 PM)RookiePundit Wrote:(12-12-2024, 04:57 PM)KM600 Wrote:(12-10-2024, 10:03 PM)Mapokser Wrote: In fact Mara barely has impressive lions size-wise currently, only Orkirikoi is clearly big and muscular, and even then doesn't seem as big as Half-Tail was ( Rob the Ranger thinks so ). The Sankai have insane manes, but even the most impressive mane-wise, Seenka, was barely bigger in anything than one of his lionesses in a video from a few months ago. I was reacting to Quote:"I don’t know how they’d compare in height, nobody does, but their overall conditioning is always great".And condition would ofc influence how they look, ie males in poor condition, recovering from something substantial or malnourished typically lose main etc. And indiscussion about size it sooner or later leads to how XY looks impressive, which this has a lot to do with. (12-12-2024, 08:37 PM)sik94 Wrote:(12-12-2024, 08:01 PM)RookiePundit Wrote: Apples and oranges. Mara keep their picked "stars" in good condition through veterinary intervention for profit. Can't compare that with actual wild lions, especially in TB infested Kruger. They are artificially boosting longevity of those lions effectively creating long-living legends, that's undeniable, they even name them, they know what they are doing. Quote:doesn't mean they are in a captive or less forgiving environment.No kidding. If old guard that would often been gone is still around, that creates conflict over limit resources (ťerritories, mating etc.) which by the way attract people ie it sells. (12-13-2024, 01:11 PM)BigLion39 Wrote:(12-06-2024, 08:32 PM)BA0701 Wrote: My friend, thank you, so much for that, as we are so very happy to have all of the members of the WildFact community! @peter My friend, it is Peter Broekhuijsen, who authored the quote at the top of the page. 
How old is Floppy Ear at this point? I thought he was youngish, like 4. He and K12 are such a pairing of circumstance, and kind of amazing they found each other from where she left her brothers.
 (12-13-2024, 06:37 PM)RookiePundit Wrote: They are artificially boosting longevity of those lions effectively creating long-living legends, that's undeniable, they even name them, they know what they are doing. I would not say that they are artificially boosting longevity but have been treating lions that is still alive and not killed by herder or any HWC. Mara lions can just magically disappear (HWC). So to counter act the HWC they treat any lions that is injured in the Mara and to make their name seen in a positive light, but they are still in cahoots/complacent with the suspects of HWC.
(12-13-2024, 07:37 PM)BA0701 Wrote:(12-13-2024, 07:31 PM)T_Ferguson Wrote: How old is Floppy Ear at this point? I thought he was youngish, like 4. He and K12 are such a pairing of circumstance, and kind of amazing they found each other from where she left her brothers. Correct me if I am wrong but from what I can remember he will turn 3 or 4 years old this February. |
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