There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
That's a vague statement isn't it? Especially considering that male leopards have a similar maximum shoulder height as male jaguars. In mass jaguaresses and male leopards too are similar. He isn't even comparing cats; he's boasting the jaguars because that's what Marlon Dutoit does.
No jaguaress is going to dwarf big Persian males from northern Iran but at the same time that jaguaress he mentions could be thrice the size of an Arabian male leopard. Again it's a vague statement.
Shoulder height isn’t indicative of a cats size and similar isn’t the same.
Female Jaguars from the Pantanal are going to dwarf male Leopards which is what was stated. Not that they’ll dwarf the largest individuals of the Leopard species. And regardless of location, female Pantanal Jaguars will be larger than any male leopard subspecies. The largest Persians, Africans and Indians will all overlap with Female Jaguars for sure but the biggest of them more often is the Female Panatanal Jaguar.
Lastly, there’s no discrediting Marlon, he’s seen 100s of leopards and dozens of Jaguars, he’s not making uneducated claims.
Not trying to argue with Marlon, but what national parks has he gone to for Leopards?
12-27-2022, 08:54 AM( This post was last modified: 12-27-2022, 08:59 AM by Styx38 )
(12-27-2022, 02:45 AM)Pckts Wrote:
(12-26-2022, 10:23 PM)Styx38 Wrote:
(12-26-2022, 06:13 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(12-26-2022, 03:37 PM)Styx38 Wrote:
(08-12-2022, 07:11 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(08-12-2022, 03:33 PM)Luipaard Wrote:
(08-02-2022, 06:05 PM)Pckts Wrote:
*This image is copyright of its original author
That's a vague statement isn't it? Especially considering that male leopards have a similar maximum shoulder height as male jaguars. In mass jaguaresses and male leopards too are similar. He isn't even comparing cats; he's boasting the jaguars because that's what Marlon Dutoit does.
No jaguaress is going to dwarf big Persian males from northern Iran but at the same time that jaguaress he mentions could be thrice the size of an Arabian male leopard. Again it's a vague statement.
Shoulder height isn’t indicative of a cats size and similar isn’t the same.
Female Jaguars from the Pantanal are going to dwarf male Leopards which is what was stated. Not that they’ll dwarf the largest individuals of the Leopard species. And regardless of location, female Pantanal Jaguars will be larger than any male leopard subspecies. The largest Persians, Africans and Indians will all overlap with Female Jaguars for sure but the biggest of them more often is the Female Panatanal Jaguar.
Lastly, there’s no discrediting Marlon, he’s seen 100s of leopards and dozens of Jaguars, he’s not making uneducated claims.
Not trying to argue with Marlon, but what national parks has he gone to for Leopards?
He’s seen leopards from all over E/S Africa.
Name a major park and he’s probably been there.
Ok.
So did he go as a guide or a tourist to all tthese parks?
Also you mentioned that he went to India?
He’s a guide. He’s been to few parks in India and the Pantanal as well. You can view his IG and see all this if you want.
So he worked as a guide in other parks?
Also, he saw Leopards in India?
I just want to point out that it is very hard to see a Leopard let alone get a good photograph due to their elusive nature.
If you want an anecdote, then I did not see a Leopard in any Kenyan park apart from Maasai Mara. That to with the persistence with the guide after he got contact with someone else about a Leopard sighting. It was worth it to finally get the Leopard on camera. Granted, the Leopard was a sub adult male trying to hunt down some Impala. The tourist cars also surrounded the Leopard, cutting off any possible hunt.
In India, they are flighty when they realize that they are spotted by tourists. In Pench, a Leopard was spotted by our jeep. However, the Leopard just darted into some nearby cover, then escaped our sight. The only thing we got to photograph was a tiny bit of the Leopard's tail in the bush. In another park, we saw a Leopard trying to hunt some Deer. The alarm calls occured, and the Leopard darted across the road. What is is funny is that even at a good distance, the Leopard moves like a blur. The Leopard actually covered several meters and reached the top of a small incline or hill in the blink of an eye. We got to get a last glimpse of the Leopard before the panther disappeared over the incline. I guess the Leopard's speed might have been comparable if not even greater than a local Coyote's speed. It is interesting to see an animal moving at a blur since it looks almost like something out of a comic book movie. Keep in mind both these Leopards were either small or medium sized.
All I can say is that I have to commend Marlon for getting a good observation of these Leopards since they are usually the most difficult carnivores to spot in the wild.
Also, an acquaintance recommended to travel to Kruger since saw a Leopard there. Can you see a large male Leopard more easily in this park?
12-27-2022, 07:03 PM( This post was last modified: 12-27-2022, 10:12 PM by Pckts )
(12-27-2022, 08:54 AM)Styx38 Wrote:
(12-27-2022, 02:45 AM)Pckts Wrote:
(12-26-2022, 10:23 PM)Styx38 Wrote:
(12-26-2022, 06:13 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(12-26-2022, 03:37 PM)Styx38 Wrote:
(08-12-2022, 07:11 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(08-12-2022, 03:33 PM)Luipaard Wrote:
(08-02-2022, 06:05 PM)Pckts Wrote:
*This image is copyright of its original author
That's a vague statement isn't it? Especially considering that male leopards have a similar maximum shoulder height as male jaguars. In mass jaguaresses and male leopards too are similar. He isn't even comparing cats; he's boasting the jaguars because that's what Marlon Dutoit does.
No jaguaress is going to dwarf big Persian males from northern Iran but at the same time that jaguaress he mentions could be thrice the size of an Arabian male leopard. Again it's a vague statement.
Shoulder height isn’t indicative of a cats size and similar isn’t the same.
Female Jaguars from the Pantanal are going to dwarf male Leopards which is what was stated. Not that they’ll dwarf the largest individuals of the Leopard species. And regardless of location, female Pantanal Jaguars will be larger than any male leopard subspecies. The largest Persians, Africans and Indians will all overlap with Female Jaguars for sure but the biggest of them more often is the Female Panatanal Jaguar.
Lastly, there’s no discrediting Marlon, he’s seen 100s of leopards and dozens of Jaguars, he’s not making uneducated claims.
Not trying to argue with Marlon, but what national parks has he gone to for Leopards?
He’s seen leopards from all over E/S Africa.
Name a major park and he’s probably been there.
Ok.
So did he go as a guide or a tourist to all tthese parks?
Also you mentioned that he went to India?
He’s a guide. He’s been to few parks in India and the Pantanal as well. You can view his IG and see all this if you want.
So he worked as a guide in other parks?
Also, he saw Leopards in India?
I just want to point out that it is very hard to see a Leopard let alone get a good photograph due to their elusive nature.
If you want an anecdote, then I did not see a Leopard in any Kenyan park apart from Maasai Mara. That to with the persistence with the guide after he got contact with someone else about a Leopard sighting. It was worth it to finally get the Leopard on camera. Granted, the Leopard was a sub adult male trying to hunt down some Impala. The tourist cars also surrounded the Leopard, cutting off any possible hunt.
In India, they are flighty when they realize that they are spotted by tourists. In Pench, a Leopard was spotted by our jeep. However, the Leopard just darted into some nearby cover, then escaped our sight. The only thing we got to photograph was a tiny bit of the Leopard's tail in the bush. In another park, we saw a Leopard trying to hunt some Deer. The alarm calls occured, and the Leopard darted across the road. What is is funny is that even at a good distance, the Leopard moves like a blur. The Leopard actually covered several meters and reached the top of a small incline or hill in the blink of an eye. We got to get a last glimpse of the Leopard before the panther disappeared over the incline. I guess the Leopard's speed might have been comparable if not even greater than a local Coyote's speed. It is interesting to see an animal moving at a blur since it looks almost like something out of a comic book movie. Keep in mind both these Leopards were either small or medium sized.
All I can say is that I have to commend Marlon for getting a good observation of these Leopards since they are usually the most difficult carnivores to spot in the wild.
Also, an acquaintance recommended to travel to Kruger since saw a Leopard there. Can you see a large male Leopard more easily in this park?
He saw leopards in India as well. He’s seen 100s throughout all the parks mentioned, if you check his IG like I mentioned you can see many documented.
With regards to first hand experiences. I saw 4/5 different leopards in Tanzania when I went including a massive male with a kill stashed in a tree and we got to spend 30 mins with an older male in India (Tadoba)
Leopards are certainly harder to see in India compared to Africa but everything is harder to see in India due to the dense forests. With regards to Kruger Leopard sightings, I can't comment because I don't know but generally speaking I'd assume all sightings are more difficult in E. Africa due to the true free ranging nature there.
12-29-2022, 07:58 AM( This post was last modified: 12-29-2022, 08:25 AM by Styx38 )
(12-27-2022, 07:03 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(12-27-2022, 08:54 AM)Styx38 Wrote:
(12-27-2022, 02:45 AM)Pckts Wrote:
(12-26-2022, 10:23 PM)Styx38 Wrote:
(12-26-2022, 06:13 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(12-26-2022, 03:37 PM)Styx38 Wrote:
(08-12-2022, 07:11 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(08-12-2022, 03:33 PM)Luipaard Wrote:
(08-02-2022, 06:05 PM)Pckts Wrote:
*This image is copyright of its original author
That's a vague statement isn't it? Especially considering that male leopards have a similar maximum shoulder height as male jaguars. In mass jaguaresses and male leopards too are similar. He isn't even comparing cats; he's boasting the jaguars because that's what Marlon Dutoit does.
No jaguaress is going to dwarf big Persian males from northern Iran but at the same time that jaguaress he mentions could be thrice the size of an Arabian male leopard. Again it's a vague statement.
Shoulder height isn’t indicative of a cats size and similar isn’t the same.
Female Jaguars from the Pantanal are going to dwarf male Leopards which is what was stated. Not that they’ll dwarf the largest individuals of the Leopard species. And regardless of location, female Pantanal Jaguars will be larger than any male leopard subspecies. The largest Persians, Africans and Indians will all overlap with Female Jaguars for sure but the biggest of them more often is the Female Panatanal Jaguar.
Lastly, there’s no discrediting Marlon, he’s seen 100s of leopards and dozens of Jaguars, he’s not making uneducated claims.
Not trying to argue with Marlon, but what national parks has he gone to for Leopards?
He’s seen leopards from all over E/S Africa.
Name a major park and he’s probably been there.
Ok.
So did he go as a guide or a tourist to all tthese parks?
Also you mentioned that he went to India?
He’s a guide. He’s been to few parks in India and the Pantanal as well. You can view his IG and see all this if you want.
So he worked as a guide in other parks?
Also, he saw Leopards in India?
I just want to point out that it is very hard to see a Leopard let alone get a good photograph due to their elusive nature.
If you want an anecdote, then I did not see a Leopard in any Kenyan park apart from Maasai Mara. That to with the persistence with the guide after he got contact with someone else about a Leopard sighting. It was worth it to finally get the Leopard on camera. Granted, the Leopard was a sub adult male trying to hunt down some Impala. The tourist cars also surrounded the Leopard, cutting off any possible hunt.
In India, they are flighty when they realize that they are spotted by tourists. In Pench, a Leopard was spotted by our jeep. However, the Leopard just darted into some nearby cover, then escaped our sight. The only thing we got to photograph was a tiny bit of the Leopard's tail in the bush. In another park, we saw a Leopard trying to hunt some Deer. The alarm calls occured, and the Leopard darted across the road. What is is funny is that even at a good distance, the Leopard moves like a blur. The Leopard actually covered several meters and reached the top of a small incline or hill in the blink of an eye. We got to get a last glimpse of the Leopard before the panther disappeared over the incline. I guess the Leopard's speed might have been comparable if not even greater than a local Coyote's speed. It is interesting to see an animal moving at a blur since it looks almost like something out of a comic book movie. Keep in mind both these Leopards were either small or medium sized.
All I can say is that I have to commend Marlon for getting a good observation of these Leopards since they are usually the most difficult carnivores to spot in the wild.
Also, an acquaintance recommended to travel to Kruger since saw a Leopard there. Can you see a large male Leopard more easily in this park?
He saw leopards in India as well. He’s seen 100s throughout all the parks mentioned, if you check his IG like I mentioned you can see many documented.
With regards to first hand experiences. I saw 4/5 different leopards in Tanzania when I went including a massive male with a kill stashed in a tree and we got to spend 30 mins with an older male in India (Tadoba)
Leopards are certainly harder to see in India compared to Africa but everything is harder to see in India due to the dense forests. With regards to Kruger Leopard sightings, I can't comment because I don't know but generally speaking I'd assume all sightings are more difficult in E. Africa due to the true free ranging nature there.
Ok.
He was a guide in East Africa so he had access to the best viewing of local Leopards.
Was he also a guide in India?
I shared my anecdotes to show how hard it is to spot let alone photograph a Leopard. Even some of my associates can vouch for the elusiveness of the Leopard be it Africa, India or Sri Lanka.
The guy who saw the Leopard in Kruger never saw the Big Cat in any other park of Southern Africa. Maasai Mara is probably the only major park in East Africa where there is a guarantee for seeing all the major carnivores (Cheetah, Spotted Hyena, Leopard, Lion).
That's a vague statement isn't it? Especially considering that male leopards have a similar maximum shoulder height as male jaguars. In mass jaguaresses and male leopards too are similar. He isn't even comparing cats; he's boasting the jaguars because that's what Marlon Dutoit does.
No jaguaress is going to dwarf big Persian males from northern Iran but at the same time that jaguaress he mentions could be thrice the size of an Arabian male leopard. Again it's a vague statement.
Shoulder height isn’t indicative of a cats size and similar isn’t the same.
Female Jaguars from the Pantanal are going to dwarf male Leopards which is what was stated. Not that they’ll dwarf the largest individuals of the Leopard species. And regardless of location, female Pantanal Jaguars will be larger than any male leopard subspecies. The largest Persians, Africans and Indians will all overlap with Female Jaguars for sure but the biggest of them more often is the Female Panatanal Jaguar.
Lastly, there’s no discrediting Marlon, he’s seen 100s of leopards and dozens of Jaguars, he’s not making uneducated claims.
Not trying to argue with Marlon, but what national parks has he gone to for Leopards?
He’s seen leopards from all over E/S Africa.
Name a major park and he’s probably been there.
Ok.
So did he go as a guide or a tourist to all tthese parks?
Also you mentioned that he went to India?
He’s a guide. He’s been to few parks in India and the Pantanal as well. You can view his IG and see all this if you want.
So he worked as a guide in other parks?
Also, he saw Leopards in India?
I just want to point out that it is very hard to see a Leopard let alone get a good photograph due to their elusive nature.
If you want an anecdote, then I did not see a Leopard in any Kenyan park apart from Maasai Mara. That to with the persistence with the guide after he got contact with someone else about a Leopard sighting. It was worth it to finally get the Leopard on camera. Granted, the Leopard was a sub adult male trying to hunt down some Impala. The tourist cars also surrounded the Leopard, cutting off any possible hunt.
In India, they are flighty when they realize that they are spotted by tourists. In Pench, a Leopard was spotted by our jeep. However, the Leopard just darted into some nearby cover, then escaped our sight. The only thing we got to photograph was a tiny bit of the Leopard's tail in the bush. In another park, we saw a Leopard trying to hunt some Deer. The alarm calls occured, and the Leopard darted across the road. What is is funny is that even at a good distance, the Leopard moves like a blur. The Leopard actually covered several meters and reached the top of a small incline or hill in the blink of an eye. We got to get a last glimpse of the Leopard before the panther disappeared over the incline. I guess the Leopard's speed might have been comparable if not even greater than a local Coyote's speed. It is interesting to see an animal moving at a blur since it looks almost like something out of a comic book movie. Keep in mind both these Leopards were either small or medium sized.
All I can say is that I have to commend Marlon for getting a good observation of these Leopards since they are usually the most difficult carnivores to spot in the wild.
Also, an acquaintance recommended to travel to Kruger since saw a Leopard there. Can you see a large male Leopard more easily in this park?
He saw leopards in India as well. He’s seen 100s throughout all the parks mentioned, if you check his IG like I mentioned you can see many documented.
With regards to first hand experiences. I saw 4/5 different leopards in Tanzania when I went including a massive male with a kill stashed in a tree and we got to spend 30 mins with an older male in India (Tadoba)
Leopards are certainly harder to see in India compared to Africa but everything is harder to see in India due to the dense forests. With regards to Kruger Leopard sightings, I can't comment because I don't know but generally speaking I'd assume all sightings are more difficult in E. Africa due to the true free ranging nature there.
Ok.
He was a guide in East Africa so he had access to the best viewing of local Leopards.
Was he also a guide in India?
I shared my anecdotes to show how hard it is to spot let alone photograph a Leopard. Even some of my associates can vouch for the elusiveness of the Leopard be it Africa, India or Sri Lanka.
The guy who saw the Leopard in Kruger never saw the Big Cat in any other park of Southern Africa. Maasai Mara is probably the only major park in East Africa where there is a guarantee for seeing all the major carnivores (Cheetah, Spotted Hyena, Leopard, Lion).
He’s a guide in S. Africa and E. At times.
He never guided in India.
And any big cat is hard to see in general, there is no guarantee but none of that changes the fact that he’s seen 100s of leopards throughout Africa and they’re documented. *photos on his IG and FB with geo tags*
Also, you can pretty much guarantee all animals mentioned in the Serengeti as well. Cheetah being the toughest to spot but still common enough there.
So I’m at a loss with what exactly you’re trying to say?
Is it that Marlon hasn’t seen these cats numerous times?
(08-12-2022, 03:33 PM)Luipaard Wrote: That's a vague statement isn't it? Especially considering that male leopards have a similar maximum shoulder height as male jaguars. In mass jaguaresses and male leopards too are similar. He isn't even comparing cats; he's boasting the jaguars because that's what Marlon Dutoit does.
No jaguaress is going to dwarf big Persian males from northern Iran but at the same time that jaguaress he mentions could be thrice the size of an Arabian male leopard. Again it's a vague statement.
Shoulder height isn’t indicative of a cats size and similar isn’t the same.
Female Jaguars from the Pantanal are going to dwarf male Leopards which is what was stated. Not that they’ll dwarf the largest individuals of the Leopard species. And regardless of location, female Pantanal Jaguars will be larger than any male leopard subspecies. The largest Persians, Africans and Indians will all overlap with Female Jaguars for sure but the biggest of them more often is the Female Panatanal Jaguar.
Lastly, there’s no discrediting Marlon, he’s seen 100s of leopards and dozens of Jaguars, he’s not making uneducated claims.
Not trying to argue with Marlon, but what national parks has he gone to for Leopards?
He’s seen leopards from all over E/S Africa.
Name a major park and he’s probably been there.
Ok.
So did he go as a guide or a tourist to all tthese parks?
Also you mentioned that he went to India?
He’s a guide. He’s been to few parks in India and the Pantanal as well. You can view his IG and see all this if you want.
So he worked as a guide in other parks?
Also, he saw Leopards in India?
I just want to point out that it is very hard to see a Leopard let alone get a good photograph due to their elusive nature.
If you want an anecdote, then I did not see a Leopard in any Kenyan park apart from Maasai Mara. That to with the persistence with the guide after he got contact with someone else about a Leopard sighting. It was worth it to finally get the Leopard on camera. Granted, the Leopard was a sub adult male trying to hunt down some Impala. The tourist cars also surrounded the Leopard, cutting off any possible hunt.
In India, they are flighty when they realize that they are spotted by tourists. In Pench, a Leopard was spotted by our jeep. However, the Leopard just darted into some nearby cover, then escaped our sight. The only thing we got to photograph was a tiny bit of the Leopard's tail in the bush. In another park, we saw a Leopard trying to hunt some Deer. The alarm calls occured, and the Leopard darted across the road. What is is funny is that even at a good distance, the Leopard moves like a blur. The Leopard actually covered several meters and reached the top of a small incline or hill in the blink of an eye. We got to get a last glimpse of the Leopard before the panther disappeared over the incline. I guess the Leopard's speed might have been comparable if not even greater than a local Coyote's speed. It is interesting to see an animal moving at a blur since it looks almost like something out of a comic book movie. Keep in mind both these Leopards were either small or medium sized.
All I can say is that I have to commend Marlon for getting a good observation of these Leopards since they are usually the most difficult carnivores to spot in the wild.
Also, an acquaintance recommended to travel to Kruger since saw a Leopard there. Can you see a large male Leopard more easily in this park?
He saw leopards in India as well. He’s seen 100s throughout all the parks mentioned, if you check his IG like I mentioned you can see many documented.
With regards to first hand experiences. I saw 4/5 different leopards in Tanzania when I went including a massive male with a kill stashed in a tree and we got to spend 30 mins with an older male in India (Tadoba)
Leopards are certainly harder to see in India compared to Africa but everything is harder to see in India due to the dense forests. With regards to Kruger Leopard sightings, I can't comment because I don't know but generally speaking I'd assume all sightings are more difficult in E. Africa due to the true free ranging nature there.
Ok.
He was a guide in East Africa so he had access to the best viewing of local Leopards.
Was he also a guide in India?
I shared my anecdotes to show how hard it is to spot let alone photograph a Leopard. Even some of my associates can vouch for the elusiveness of the Leopard be it Africa, India or Sri Lanka.
The guy who saw the Leopard in Kruger never saw the Big Cat in any other park of Southern Africa. Maasai Mara is probably the only major park in East Africa where there is a guarantee for seeing all the major carnivores (Cheetah, Spotted Hyena, Leopard, Lion).
He’s a guide in S. Africa and E. At times.
He never guided in India.
And any big cat is hard to see in general, there is no guarantee but none of that changes the fact that he’s seen 100s of leopards throughout Africa and they’re documented. *photos on his IG and FB with geo tags*
Also, you can pretty much guarantee all animals mentioned in the Serengeti as well. Cheetah being the toughest to spot but still common enough there.
So I’m at a loss with what exactly you’re trying to say?
Is it that Marlon hasn’t seen these cats numerous times?
I was trying to understand why he could see so many Leopards, but I realized that he was a guide in East Africa.
I am only confused about how he can see so many Leopards in India. They are the hardest to spot/photograph compared to the other Big Cats.
For me, the Cheetah was actually the easiest to spot since I got to see the Felid in most of the Kenyan national parks.
(08-12-2022, 07:11 PM)Pckts Wrote: Shoulder height isn’t indicative of a cats size and similar isn’t the same.
Female Jaguars from the Pantanal are going to dwarf male Leopards which is what was stated. Not that they’ll dwarf the largest individuals of the Leopard species. And regardless of location, female Pantanal Jaguars will be larger than any male leopard subspecies. The largest Persians, Africans and Indians will all overlap with Female Jaguars for sure but the biggest of them more often is the Female Panatanal Jaguar.
Lastly, there’s no discrediting Marlon, he’s seen 100s of leopards and dozens of Jaguars, he’s not making uneducated claims.
Not trying to argue with Marlon, but what national parks has he gone to for Leopards?
He’s seen leopards from all over E/S Africa.
Name a major park and he’s probably been there.
Ok.
So did he go as a guide or a tourist to all tthese parks?
Also you mentioned that he went to India?
He’s a guide. He’s been to few parks in India and the Pantanal as well. You can view his IG and see all this if you want.
So he worked as a guide in other parks?
Also, he saw Leopards in India?
I just want to point out that it is very hard to see a Leopard let alone get a good photograph due to their elusive nature.
If you want an anecdote, then I did not see a Leopard in any Kenyan park apart from Maasai Mara. That to with the persistence with the guide after he got contact with someone else about a Leopard sighting. It was worth it to finally get the Leopard on camera. Granted, the Leopard was a sub adult male trying to hunt down some Impala. The tourist cars also surrounded the Leopard, cutting off any possible hunt.
In India, they are flighty when they realize that they are spotted by tourists. In Pench, a Leopard was spotted by our jeep. However, the Leopard just darted into some nearby cover, then escaped our sight. The only thing we got to photograph was a tiny bit of the Leopard's tail in the bush. In another park, we saw a Leopard trying to hunt some Deer. The alarm calls occured, and the Leopard darted across the road. What is is funny is that even at a good distance, the Leopard moves like a blur. The Leopard actually covered several meters and reached the top of a small incline or hill in the blink of an eye. We got to get a last glimpse of the Leopard before the panther disappeared over the incline. I guess the Leopard's speed might have been comparable if not even greater than a local Coyote's speed. It is interesting to see an animal moving at a blur since it looks almost like something out of a comic book movie. Keep in mind both these Leopards were either small or medium sized.
All I can say is that I have to commend Marlon for getting a good observation of these Leopards since they are usually the most difficult carnivores to spot in the wild.
Also, an acquaintance recommended to travel to Kruger since saw a Leopard there. Can you see a large male Leopard more easily in this park?
He saw leopards in India as well. He’s seen 100s throughout all the parks mentioned, if you check his IG like I mentioned you can see many documented.
With regards to first hand experiences. I saw 4/5 different leopards in Tanzania when I went including a massive male with a kill stashed in a tree and we got to spend 30 mins with an older male in India (Tadoba)
Leopards are certainly harder to see in India compared to Africa but everything is harder to see in India due to the dense forests. With regards to Kruger Leopard sightings, I can't comment because I don't know but generally speaking I'd assume all sightings are more difficult in E. Africa due to the true free ranging nature there.
Ok.
He was a guide in East Africa so he had access to the best viewing of local Leopards.
Was he also a guide in India?
I shared my anecdotes to show how hard it is to spot let alone photograph a Leopard. Even some of my associates can vouch for the elusiveness of the Leopard be it Africa, India or Sri Lanka.
The guy who saw the Leopard in Kruger never saw the Big Cat in any other park of Southern Africa. Maasai Mara is probably the only major park in East Africa where there is a guarantee for seeing all the major carnivores (Cheetah, Spotted Hyena, Leopard, Lion).
He’s a guide in S. Africa and E. At times.
He never guided in India.
And any big cat is hard to see in general, there is no guarantee but none of that changes the fact that he’s seen 100s of leopards throughout Africa and they’re documented. *photos on his IG and FB with geo tags*
Also, you can pretty much guarantee all animals mentioned in the Serengeti as well. Cheetah being the toughest to spot but still common enough there.
So I’m at a loss with what exactly you’re trying to say?
Is it that Marlon hasn’t seen these cats numerous times?
I was trying to understand why he could see so many Leopards, but I realized that he was a guide in East Africa.
I am only confused about how he can see so many Leopards in India. They are the hardest to spot/photograph compared to the other Big Cats.
For me, the Cheetah was actually the easiest to spot since I got to see the Felid in most of the Kenyan national parks.
He's only been to India a few times, he hasn't seen a lot of Leopards there. In regards to Africa, he's been guiding for over 20 years, he spends at least half the year on tours, he sponsored by Sony, his life is wildlife. I'm sure he's seen far more than 100s throughout his life, that's being conservative.
Cheetahs aren't as common in the Serengeti but there's no other place on earth with more lions. It just depends on the luck, but most parks have decent sightings of all the animals you mentioned.
12-29-2022, 10:47 PM( This post was last modified: 12-29-2022, 10:48 PM by Luipaard )
(12-29-2022, 09:50 PM)Pckts Wrote: I'm sure he's seen far more than 100s throughout his life, that's being conservative.
This discussion reminds of one that we had in the past. It all started with that Instagram post of Dutoit where he's showcasing a Pantanal jaguaress that according to him weighed "as much & if not more than the biggest of male leopards" he has ever seen.
This made you believe that the biggest Pantanal jaguaresses are bigger than the biggest male leopards, wasn't it? The question here is which are these biggest male leopards that Dutoit has seen and from where. I'm really interested in getting to know how this jaguaress compares or possibly even bests the biggest male leopards Dutoit has ever seen.
Have you ever got in touch with him? If so, could you ask him specifically who the biggest male leopards are he has ever seen?
(12-29-2022, 09:50 PM)Pckts Wrote: I'm sure he's seen far more than 100s throughout his life, that's being conservative.
This discussion reminds of one that we had in the past. It all started with that Instagram post of Dutoit where he's showcasing a Pantanal jaguaress that according to him weighed "as much & if not more than the biggest of male leopards" he has ever seen.
This made you believe that the biggest Pantanal jaguaresses are bigger than the biggest male leopards, wasn't it? The question here is which are these biggest male leopards that Dutoit has seen and from where. I'm really interested in getting to know how this jaguaress compares or possibly even bests the biggest male leopards Dutoit has ever seen.
Have you ever got in touch with him? If so, could you ask him specifically who the biggest male leopards are he has ever seen?
Quote:This made you believe that the biggest Pantanal jaguaresses are bigger than the biggest male leopards, wasn't it?
12-29-2022, 11:45 PM( This post was last modified: 12-29-2022, 11:47 PM by Luipaard )
(12-29-2022, 11:15 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(12-29-2022, 10:47 PM)Luipaard Wrote:
(12-29-2022, 09:50 PM)Pckts Wrote: I'm sure he's seen far more than 100s throughout his life, that's being conservative.
This discussion reminds of one that we had in the past. It all started with that Instagram post of Dutoit where he's showcasing a Pantanal jaguaress that according to him weighed "as much & if not more than the biggest of male leopards" he has ever seen.
This made you believe that the biggest Pantanal jaguaresses are bigger than the biggest male leopards, wasn't it? The question here is which are these biggest male leopards that Dutoit has seen and from where. I'm really interested in getting to know how this jaguaress compares or possibly even bests the biggest male leopards Dutoit has ever seen.
Have you ever got in touch with him? If so, could you ask him specifically who the biggest male leopards are he has ever seen?
Quote:This made you believe that the biggest Pantanal jaguaresses are bigger than the biggest male leopards, wasn't it?
No the verified measurements of both proved that.
But we both received confirmation of the 115kg Persian male leopard from wildlife veterinarian Iman Memarian? Another member received yet another voice message of Iman Memarian where it is stated that they found him near another dead animal. So he likely feasted on it therefore the 115kg figure is one where he had stomach content. His weight then dropped to 105kg which means he was by then (close to) empty. Later it dropped further to 95-98kg because he refused to eat and had a terrible health condition. Still no jaguaress, Pantanal or not, has ever attained this size of 115kg (full/gorged) or 105kg. The biggest Pantanal jaguaresses aren't bigger than the biggest male leopards.
12-30-2022, 07:15 PM( This post was last modified: 12-30-2022, 08:52 PM by Pckts )
(12-29-2022, 11:45 PM)I’m Luipaard Wrote:
(12-29-2022, 11:15 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(12-29-2022, 10:47 PM)Luipaard Wrote:
(12-29-2022, 09:50 PM)Pckts Wrote: I'm sure he's seen far more than 100s throughout his life, that's being conservative.
This discussion reminds of one that we had in the past. It all started with that Instagram post of Dutoit where he's showcasing a Pantanal jaguaress that according to him weighed "as much & if not more than the biggest of male leopards" he has ever seen.
This made you believe that the biggest Pantanal jaguaresses are bigger than the biggest male leopards, wasn't it? The question here is which are these biggest male leopards that Dutoit has seen and from where. I'm really interested in getting to know how this jaguaress compares or possibly even bests the biggest male leopards Dutoit has ever seen.
Have you ever got in touch with him? If so, could you ask him specifically who the biggest male leopards are he has ever seen?
Quote:This made you believe that the biggest Pantanal jaguaresses are bigger than the biggest male leopards, wasn't it?
No the verified measurements of both proved that.
But we both received confirmation of the 115kg Persian male leopard from wildlife veterinarian Iman Memarian? Another member received yet another voice message of Iman Memarian where it is stated that they found him near another dead animal. So he likely feasted on it therefore the 115kg figure is one where he had stomach content. His weight then dropped to 105kg which means he was by then (close to) empty. Later it dropped further to 95-98kg because he refused to eat and had a terrible health condition. Still no jaguaress, Pantanal or not, has ever attained this size of 115kg (full/gorged) or 105kg. The biggest Pantanal jaguaresses aren't bigger than the biggest male leopards.
Can you just ask Marlon Dutoit though?
“It dropped, he dropped” none of that matters. You know where I stand on that. The fact is that female Pantanal Jaguars average more and hit higher weights more often with far less total individuals measured. Which means the odds of seeing a Female Pantanal jag 80-100kg is higher than the odds of seeing a Leopard from any location at the same weight.
I don’t need to ask Marlon, hes mentioned it on 2 different occasions.
Not to mention that he’s seen far fewer Jaguars compared to Leopards and yet he still feels the need to talk about it. He also uses words like “dwarf” which is indicative of a large size discrepancy.
12-30-2022, 11:50 PM( This post was last modified: 12-30-2022, 11:54 PM by Luipaard )
(12-30-2022, 07:15 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(12-29-2022, 11:45 PM)I’m Luipaard Wrote:
(12-29-2022, 11:15 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(12-29-2022, 10:47 PM)Luipaard Wrote:
(12-29-2022, 09:50 PM)Pckts Wrote: I'm sure he's seen far more than 100s throughout his life, that's being conservative.
This discussion reminds of one that we had in the past. It all started with that Instagram post of Dutoit where he's showcasing a Pantanal jaguaress that according to him weighed "as much & if not more than the biggest of male leopards" he has ever seen.
This made you believe that the biggest Pantanal jaguaresses are bigger than the biggest male leopards, wasn't it? The question here is which are these biggest male leopards that Dutoit has seen and from where. I'm really interested in getting to know how this jaguaress compares or possibly even bests the biggest male leopards Dutoit has ever seen.
Have you ever got in touch with him? If so, could you ask him specifically who the biggest male leopards are he has ever seen?
Quote:This made you believe that the biggest Pantanal jaguaresses are bigger than the biggest male leopards, wasn't it?
No the verified measurements of both proved that.
But we both received confirmation of the 115kg Persian male leopard from wildlife veterinarian Iman Memarian? Another member received yet another voice message of Iman Memarian where it is stated that they found him near another dead animal. So he likely feasted on it therefore the 115kg figure is one where he had stomach content. His weight then dropped to 105kg which means he was by then (close to) empty. Later it dropped further to 95-98kg because he refused to eat and had a terrible health condition. Still no jaguaress, Pantanal or not, has ever attained this size of 115kg (full/gorged) or 105kg. The biggest Pantanal jaguaresses aren't bigger than the biggest male leopards.
Can you just ask Marlon Dutoit though?
“It dropped, he dropped” none of that matters. You know where I stand on that. The fact is that female Pantanal Jaguars average more and hit higher weights more often with far less total individuals measured. Which means the odds of seeing a Female Pantanal jag 80-100kg is higher than the odds of seeing a Leopard from any location at the same weight.
I don’t need to ask Marlon, hes mentioned it on 2 different occasions.
Not to mention that he’s seen far fewer Jaguars compared to Leopards and yet he still feels the need to talk about it. He also uses words like “dwarf” which is indicative of a large size discrepancy.
*This image is copyright of its original author
Quote:“It dropped, he dropped” none of that matters. You know where I stand on that.
It matters that a dying Persian leopard still weighed 95kg while weighing 115kg with stomach content. We know the full story behind this Persian male thanks to Iman Memarian who was kind enough to give further information. Do you decide to ignore the other weights because it surpasses the biggest Pantanal jaguaresses? Just wondering because even confirmation from a first-hand source doesn't seem to convince you.
Quote:The fact is that female Pantanal Jaguars average more and hit higher weights more often with far less total individuals measured. Which means the odds of seeing a Female Pantanal jag 80-100kg is higher than the odds of seeing a Leopard from any location at the same weight.
This is totally irrelevant but let's play along. I guarantee you that Persian leopards in northern Iran match Pantanal jaguaresses in terms of average weight. They've already bested them in terms of maximum weight after all. Regarding frequency it's the same story; Persian male leopards average 66kg in Iran. This includes 40-50kg males from the south and the centre. In northern Iran they're supposed to be bigger thus they'll weigh more on average. Scientists all agree on this and have logical explanations for this - e.g. prey abundance and a colder environment. A young male already weighed 64kg so you can be sure that adult males will weigh on average at least 70kg. The odds of seeing an 80-100kg male in this region is much higher than you think.
Quote:I don’t need to ask Marlon, hes mentioned it on 2 different occasions.
I'd like to know which male leopards are the largest he's ever seen. Your 2 different occasions are simple; in one he claims a jaguaress is at least as big as the biggest male leopard he's ever seen, perhaps bigger who knows. That's it. In the other post he's simply boasting the jaguars because he must make sure his followers are interested and amazed. I still don't know to what leopard I must compare this jaguaress with. He's talking about the biggest males he has ever seen, but he hasn't been to Central Africa or Iran so we're not talking about the biggest males in the world. That's a certainty.
Quote:Not to mention that he’s seen far fewer Jaguars compared to Leopards and yet he still feels the need to talk about it. He also uses words like “dwarf” which is indicative of a large size discrepancy.
I told you before; it's a vague statement. That jaguaress isn't going to dwarf every male leopard. She won't even dwarf a male from Masai Mara, for example. But she will dwarf many males from different subspecies. I find it disappointing that he feels the need to exaggerate. Would you be okay if I post a photo of a huge Persian male and claim he dwarfs a jaguaress? Because both related species can dwarf each other as their weights overlap. Again this is only because he has to entertain his followers.
(12-30-2022, 11:50 PM)Luipaard Wrote:
It matters that a dying Persian leopard still weighed 95kg while weighing 115kg with stomach content. We know the full story behind this Persian male thanks to Iman Memarian who was kind enough to give further information. Do you decide to ignore the other weights because it surpasses the biggest Pantanal jaguaresses? Just wondering because even confirmation from a first-hand source doesn't seem to convince you.
Quote:The fact is that female Pantanal Jaguars average more and hit higher weights more often with far less total individuals measured. Which means the odds of seeing a Female Pantanal jag 80-100kg is higher than the odds of seeing a Leopard from any location at the same weight.
This is totally irrelevant but let's play along. I guarantee you that Persian leopards in northern Iran match Pantanal jaguaresses in terms of average weight. They've already bested them in terms of maximum weight after all. Regarding frequency it's the same story; Persian male leopards average 66kg in Iran. This includes 40-50kg males from the south and the centre. In northern Iran they're supposed to be bigger thus they'll weigh more on average. Scientists all agree on this and have logical explanations for this - e.g. prey abundance and a colder environment. A young male already weighed 64kg so you can be sure that adult males will weigh on average at least 70kg. The odds of seeing an 80-100kg male in this region is much higher than you think.
Off topic, but the chart noted several 80+ kg and even 90+ kg Leopards.
Did the state the parts of Iran that these Leopards came from?
I don't like that there's still this amount of doubts regarding that leopard when a very knowledgeable vet which works for conservation literally confirmed by first hand all the reality about that individual cat.
He just confirmed to me that the leopard was found in severe conditions near a carcass, telling that the weight of 115 kg (252 lbs) was due to stomach content, which still remarks that the leopard reached a very high weight.
After the cat was sedated and put in a box it was taken to I assume a wild animal rescue hospital, where it fell in a condition of stress (visible from pictures where the leopard constantly growls at the rescuers)and refused to eat, except its own limbs given the high amount of stress. As a consequence, the weight dropped since within half a day or a day the food in the stomach is digested and no other food is taken since the cat refused to eat. At that moment, the leopard was weighed in at around 105 kgs (230 lbs) when empty bellied, since as I said, it refused to eat and started eating his own limbs. The day of the euthanasia, which took some days later, the leopard was weighed again and this time it was around 98 kgs (216 lbs), again after the leopard wasn't eating and by consequence it's body weight started decreasing.
I myself experienced a very terrible fever when I was in my prime of gym training during this November ( I weigh 80.49 kgs) and I skipped 6 days of training, while eating not nearly close to half of the amount o(I wasn't even hungry, I also skipped lunch and dinner one day)of rice, eggs, chicken, ,spinach, beef and calories I used to eat days before and surprisingly, my weight dropped to 77.36 kgs , it took me over a week to get close to the 80 kg mark again. So while still eating I lost nearly 3 kgs of weight in 6 days, it's perfectly reasonable that the leopard lost weight while not eating anything.
By consequence, it's completely accurate and reasonable to say the leopard weighed between 100-105 kgs when healthy and empty which it a actually did as Imam said.
I'll send again the video with all the reality shared by the vet
Instead of doing these endless debates regarding the size of this outlier large male we should focus on other features, like the fact that this leopard managed to survive after being shot literally several times and was still growling in rage, just gives us an idea of how tenacious these beasts are, untamable and unsubdued even by our developed weapons. Divine creatures.
Comparing Cats: A Discussion of Similarities & Differences
