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ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris)
ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris)
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ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris)
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This is an interesting documentary!!!
But I can't let it go @Apex Titan Forget this theme: tiger x bears. Your previous posts were enough to prove that tigers kill bears!!!  (09-04-2022, 05:00 AM)GrizzlyClaws Wrote: Here is the largest pugmark measured by Dr. Feng: 16.5 - 17 cm wide and 15 cm long. Pugmarks that size should be considered a good sized standard male Tiger although soft mud can exaggerate them. Here's the largest Male pugmarks measured by someone from Kanha back in 1994  *This image is copyright of its original author Saddam was said to be large but not one of the largest big boys there just for reference. 
@peter
According to @tigerluver , tiger got relatively smaller pm4 in relation to its skull. And the largest tiger skull he personally measured was 380 mm with a pm4 of 34 mm. So he personally believes the average skull size for those Chinese Pleistocene tigers should be around 400 mm, maybe with some exceptional specimens exceeding 460 mm. The mesio-distal width of the canine crown is also staggering with 3.2 cm, perhaps around 5 cm at the mesio-distal width of the canine root? The modern Kruger lion only got 3.1 cm maximum at the mesio-distal width of the canine root which means the canine root of a large male African lion is even thinner than the canine crown of the Pleistocene tigers.  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author Morphologically speaking, the Manchurian Amur tiger is the closest type of modern tigers to the Pleistocene because they both inhabited in the temperate woodland to the relatively cold taiga forest. Meanwhile other tiger subspecies have been morphologically shifted because choosing different habitation compared to its Pleistocene predecessor. Genetically speaking, other tiger subspecies are just as closely related to the Pleistocene tiger as the Amur tiger. (09-12-2022, 09:26 PM)Matias Wrote:(09-10-2022, 06:38 AM)GrizzlyClaws Wrote: The glacial period was rather short that lasted for about couple of thousand years.Everything should start by reading the article Dr. Shaheer Sherani, and the key point would be the dating of the mandibular fossil. The Ngandong tiger (no further depth) has its fossils dated to approximately 190,000 years ago on the island of Java, which places it very far from the MIS 2 time period. Recall that the last glacial maximum occurred between 24,000 and 18,000 years ago – period when the Malay mainland and other islands were connected to Borneo (Sundaland). So, any prospect of the presence of this tiger in Borneo in MIS 2 is based on the veracity of the material collected and its undisputed dating. Moving forward, has anyone read the article? Morphologically speaking, the giant Bornean tiger belonged to the southern type of the continental Pleistocene tiger. However, according to @tigerluver, this tiger got proportionally thinner canine teeth like the Ngandong tiger, unlike their northern cousins from China who possessed the unmatched dentition among the contemporary Pantherines. Maybe the proportionally thinner canine teeth could be an indication of the admixture from the Sunda tiger? (09-12-2022, 11:23 PM)Pckts Wrote:(09-04-2022, 05:00 AM)GrizzlyClaws Wrote: Here is the largest pugmark measured by Dr. Feng: 16.5 - 17 cm wide and 15 cm long. This means the largest Bengal and the largest Amur still got the same paw size, only the Bengal still maintains an edge in the weight department. (09-13-2022, 03:14 AM)GrizzlyClaws Wrote:(09-12-2022, 11:23 PM)Pckts Wrote:(09-04-2022, 05:00 AM)GrizzlyClaws Wrote: Here is the largest pugmark measured by Dr. Feng: 16.5 - 17 cm wide and 15 cm long. I'm not aware of any 20cm pug marks for Amurs but it's not something measured accurately very easily since terrain plays a huge role. If anything I'd imagine Amurs should have larger paw size since they are traversing through snow. (09-13-2022, 03:37 AM)Pckts Wrote:(09-13-2022, 03:14 AM)GrizzlyClaws Wrote:(09-12-2022, 11:23 PM)Pckts Wrote:(09-04-2022, 05:00 AM)GrizzlyClaws Wrote: Here is the largest pugmark measured by Dr. Feng: 16.5 - 17 cm wide and 15 cm long. Some Bengal tiger individuals like B2 and few others also got monstrous paws, and I think it is designated to destroy the prey's neck with a single swipe.
Here is the comparison between the canine crown of the Pleistocene tiger and the modern male African lion.
The African lion canines here are identical to the largest measured canines of the male Kruger lions. 124 mm in total length, and the crown height is more than 55 mm, the mesio-distal width is 3.1 cm at the canine root. The four set canines weigh more than 265.5 grams combined, and each upper canine should weigh about 80 grams. The Pleistocene tiger canine looks to weigh at least about 3 times as much as the lion canine.  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author
 (09-12-2022, 09:38 PM)Matias Wrote: This is an interesting documentary!!! It seems that you don't know the purpose of my posts on tigers and bears. The fact that tigers hunt and kill bears is already common knowledge and a well known fact, so I'm not trying to "prove" that tigers kill bears from my posts. Everybody already knows that. The sole purpose of my posts on tigers v bears is just to provide some interesting, factual and insightful information on this particular topic, because many people are fascinated by the interactions between tigers and bears. That's why Peter invited me on this thread, to post good information on tigers vs bears (i.e. predations, fight accounts & interactions), as he is also interested in this topic. So whenever I find some interesting or new information on the tiger v bear topic, I post it in the extinction thread. The main theme of the new 'Frozen Planet 2' segment on Siberian tigers, was specifically about tigers hunting bears. Thats what the filmmakers were after, they went to Russia to capture footage of wild Siberian tigers hunting bears.
Global wild tiger populations have increased
In this blog, Dr. John Goodrich, our Chief Scientist and Tiger Program Director, expresses his optimism about the latest IUCN update on wild tiger numbers, which revealed a positive trend. Read about tiger conservation's past, present and future and why we must be cautiously optimistic.  *This image is copyright of its original author After years of hard work and persistence, I finally find cautious optimism. Having dedicated my life to protecting tigers and seeing years of decline in their numbers, I have exciting news to share: in a Panthera-led re-evaluation of tigers for the IUCN (International Union for Conservation of Nature) Red List, tigers remain classified as Endangered, but if progress continues as it has over the past decade, they will likely be upgraded to Vulnerable! Even better news is a seeming increase in tiger numbers. The 2015 Red List evaluation estimated about 3,200 wild tigers remaining, while the current estimate is about 4,500, suggesting a 40 percent increase in tiger numbers since 2014. But unfortunately, the story is not that simple, and indeed, while global tiger numbers may have increased, my optimism is measured. To understand why, one must understand the details of the Red List process, how scientists apply it to evaluating tigers and how we actually count tigers. Full article: https://panthera.org/blog-post/stripes-h...ucn-update The population of the Amur tiger in Russia has increased by at least 60 individuals in seven years More than 600 predators live in the country, their numbers no longer cause serious concern MOSCOW, 3 September. /TASS/. The Amur tiger population in Russia has increased by at least 60 individuals over the past seven years. More than 600 predators live in nature, their numbers no longer cause serious concern, according to the journal of the Eastern Economic Forum (WEF). The exact numbers of the current number of the largest wild cat will be reported at the II International Forum on the Conservation of the Tiger, which will be held on the starting day of the WEF on September 5. "Specialists have already stated that there are now more than 600 tigers in Russia, and their habitat has expanded due to new areas. For comparison, the previous complete census of the tiger, conducted in 2015, showed 540 individuals of the Red Book cat living in Russia," the statement reads. WEF magazine. Experts believe that the number of Amur tigers has now reached "optimal values". "The predator has moved away from the dangerous line, but work on the long-term conservation of its population continues. Further steps in this direction will be outlined at the II International Forum on the Conservation of the Tiger," the magazine says. https://tass.ru/obschestvo/15636625?utm_...google.com Population of Amur tigers increased in Primorye - Land of the Leopard National Park  *This image is copyright of its original author In Primorye, specialists from the Land of the Leopard National Park and the Kedrovaya Pad Reserve noted an increase in the population of Amur tigers. RIA Novosti writes about this .Thus, 10 new individuals of the largest representatives of the cat family have appeared in the Land of the Leopard National Park in two years - today 41 tigers and 14 more kittens live here. It is noted that new predators are young animals that settle over long distances in search of free territories. Data from 450 camera traps allowed scientists to identify an increase in the population in these places. The Amur tiger is one of the largest and rare species of predatory animals of the cat family, listed in the Red Book. According to the latest data, there are more than 600 individuals of this species in Russia. Lives in the southern part of the Far East. Earlier in September, employees of the Khingan Reserve in the Amur Region for the first time recorded on a camera a male Amur tiger, which ended up in the habitat of the female Elena. It is noted that the reserve can become a full-fledged habitat and breeding zone for tigers. https://lenta.ru/news/2021/09/23/tigriki/ The population of the Amur tiger in the Far East has increased The population of the Red Book Amur tiger in the Far East has increased to 750 individuals. Last autumn, the number of these predators was about 600. According to RIA Novosti with reference to Alexei Surovoy, Deputy Head of the Ministry of Forestry of Primorye, the census is carried out once every ten years, but this time it took place earlier in connection with the upcoming II International Forum on the Conservation of the Tiger, which will be held as part of the WEF-22. According to Surovoy, the final figures may be higher, they will be presented on September 5 in Vladivostok. The growth of the tiger population is also clearly visible in the Khabarovsk Territory. And about. Yury Kolpak, head of the regional hunting department, noted that the number of predators had increased to 150 individuals. About 80% of the Amur tiger population lives in Primorye. In the Khabarovsk Territory - about 18% of the population. About 20 tigers live in the JAO, five to seven predators live in the Amur region. https://www.eastrussia.ru/news/populyats...elichilas/ Amur tiger population in Russia reaches 750 - Russian President Vladimir Putin VLADIVOSTOK, Sept. 5 (Xinhua) -- The number of tigers in the world has increased by 40 percent over the past 12 years, while the Amur tiger population in Russia has reached 750 individuals. This was stated by Russian President Vladimir Putin in his video address to the participants of the 2nd International Tiger Conservation Forum in Vladivostok, which opened on September 5 as part of the Eastern Economic Forum 2022. V. Putin noted that, despite all efforts, tigers have disappeared in several countries, and in some countries their existence remains under threat. Therefore, the strengthening of international cooperation, the exchange of experience with those who are successful in the conservation of tigers, is of particular importance, he said. The President noted that about 750 Amur tigers, including cubs, were registered in the Far Eastern taiga, which was the result of systemic measures V. Putin added that additional protected zones would be created in the Russian reserves where the Amur tiger lives. At the 2nd International Tiger Forum, experts and officials discussed the results of the previous 12-year striped predator conservation program. It is planned to consolidate the mechanisms for the regular exchange of information, effective international coordination of actions, outline the next milestones and initiate new cooperation activities. As part of the "Tiger Forum", a solemn presentation of a themed train dedicated to the Amur tiger took place today at the Vladivostok railway station. The purpose of the information campaign is to draw public attention to the problems of environmental protection and the protection of endangered species of animals. "Tigrin" was one of the trains "Russia" Vladivostok - Moscow. Outside, 12 carriages are decorated with images of adult tigers and cubs. Inside the composition there are posters with information about rare species of animals in Russia, requiring the adoption of priority measures to restore the population. The Amur tiger is the largest feline in the world. The animal is listed in the international Red Book. According to experts, 95 percent of the world population of the Amur tiger is concentrated in Russia. More than half of the population lives in the Primorsky Territory, followed by the Khabarovsk Territory, the Jewish Autonomous Region and the Amur Region. https://russian.news.cn/20220906/12377ea...c9c/c.html Based on the results of a complete census of the Amur tiger in 2021/2022. There are currently at least 750 Amur tigers in Russia, including cubs. The figure was announced by Russian President Vladimir Putin in his address to the participants of the II International Tiger Conservation Forum, which took place on September 5, 2022 in Vladivostok. According to the results of the previous "tiger census" conducted in 2015, there were 523-540 tigers in Russia. http://amur-tiger.ru/ru/press_center/news/1754/
Here's the picture of the tiger (from Frozen Planet 2) licking the bark of a tree, that some time earlier, had a brown bear rub against it:
 *This image is copyright of its original author "Brown bears preparing to hibernate in Siberia face an added survival problem. They have to make sure that while they sleep, they don’t fall prey to tigers (pictured a Siberian tiger)." https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/ar...et-II.html This statement is referring to the picture above: "And then there’s the beautiful, dangerous, near-extinct Siberian tiger, which appears to lament the presence of a (brown) bear by a tree. The tiger proceeds to lick the bark, as if dreaming of the meat that once stood there." https://www.culturewhisper.com/r/tv/froz...ough/17144 This is interesting because the filmmakers captured footage of likely unknown tiger behaviour. It seems that tigers, when smelling the scent of their prey (i.e. bears) on a tree, proceed to lick the bark of the tree, as if craving to eat the bear. This behaviour shows that tigers are quite complex animals to understand. Biologists are always finding out more and more unknown behaviour of animals they've studied for decades. Russian biologists and researchers study tigers by tracking them in the snow, finding their kills, sometimes by radio-collaring, examining their scats and (in more recent times) capturing pictures or very short videos of them on camera traps. But shooting videos of wild Amur tigers hunting and interacting with other animals seems almost impossible. Hopefully in the near future, filmmakers or researchers, will be lucky enough to finally record video footage of an Amur tiger hunting and killing a bear, or interacting with a brown bear at a kill-site.
Giant Amur tiger from the Harbin breeding center.
All sampled specimens weighed between 98 - 442.4 kg with the age of 2 - 9 years old. They were usually fasted 1 - 2 days per week and were regularly fed with chicken and pork. All specimens were described as 'healthy' so far, and most likely being empty stomach before being weighed and blood sampled. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full...2/vms3.395 I guess this particular 442.4 kg specimen is equivalent to a 7 feet tall and 350 pounds individual for the modern Homo sapiens. Those giant specimens among the modern big cats sound too staggering to be real, but they do exist. @peter @tigerluver @GuateGojira (10-12-2022, 02:28 AM)Garras Pardas Wrote: Eu acho que este espécime particular de 442,4 kg é equivalente a um indivíduo de 7 pés de altura e 350 libras para o moderno Homo sapiens. It's the equivalent of a human who weighs over 500 pounds and lives from one couch to another. The extremes of their weight, 98/442 basically demonstrate that these tigers are fed according to their utility. 98 kg for those aimed at making bone wine (from birth, present their serious problems inherent to inbreeding, spacing and inadequate nutrition), and the other extreme for visitor viewing. I would not trust any evidence from this study that demonstrates any good criteria in these establishments has a healthy life. The captivity manufacture individuals that would starve to death two or tree weeks after being released into any good habitat for wild tigers. Like a human who was born and raised in a penitentiary, all these tigers are monsters - biologically and socially. "They're not tigers, they just look like..." (10-15-2022, 02:48 AM)Matias Wrote:(10-12-2022, 02:28 AM)Garras Pardas Wrote: Eu acho que este espécime particular de 442,4 kg é equivalente a um indivíduo de 7 pés de altura e 350 libras para o moderno Homo sapiens. According to the paper, these tigers were routinely fasted for 1 - 2 days per week, which means they weren't gorged every day and were mostly fed with low calorie chickens. All sampled specimens were described as 'healthy', so they could be slightly overweighed as we saw from most specimens in the Harbin breeding center, but not morbidly obese like those specimens described by the Guinness Record. The 442.4 kg Amur tiger from the Harbin breeding center was undoubtedly a bigger boned specimen than the 423 kg Jaipur from the Guinness Record. The killer Amur tiger from German zoo got a 420 - 430 mm skull as a 4 years old subadult, and there could have bigger skulls from the Harbin breeding center.
@GrizzlyClaws
The problem is precisely where this study was carried out. Harbin… any other commercial enterprise with tigers in China has no practical conservation aspect. On the day that China has an authentic enterprise along the lines of private initiative in South Africa with Lions, through its Game Reserves, such as: Madikwe, Welgevonden, Phinda… or even more naturally composed as Bubye Valley Conservancy (Zimbabwe); we could begin, with some caution, to mirror these tigers on other free-living ones. With minority exceptions, we would not see specimens heavier than 240/250 kg (the dynamics of predation must make them strong, fast and agile). This study is good propaganda, parachuted in, to give some new outlet to these multiple ventures which, in the end, all enter the broad market for their parts, helping to perpetuate the demand for tiger products. From this perspective, I could not be touched by the methodology or the results. The morphology of captive felines cannot be compared to wild specimens. Captive specimens must be viewed in a restricted, way inherent to their life circumstances, and compared only with captive specimens. Yes, there are specimens of wild tigers that were bigger and heavier than the great average. This point should also be viewed with a good deal of caution, where directing that these specimens are more adapted or that they had greater evolutionary success is a point to cannot direct to this understanding, since only those who tread the earth and develop field studies, following these tigers for years (radiocollared) may suggest these circumstances. Hormonal and glandular problems associated with obesity, sedentary lifestyle, consanguinity and inadequate diet also make up this picture of the extremes of your weight. In those “live animal” feeding shows we have tigers of spectacular sizes and shapes, but calling them “healthy” is a bit much. We can't prove it, but metabolic-accelerating synthetic drugs and other hormone synthesizers is a common practice. “Large specimens are the showcase for Harbin Siberian Tiger Park – a by-product of entertainment ingenuity". I don't disagree with your point of view... there is no way to trust the authors and the interests that are involved. Invite renowned scientists in the field and let them analyze and disseminate the hematological and biochemical parameters of tigers they freely choose to select in Harbin. Not that this will produce a broad understanding, it will compose a biological picture of what China has been producing in captivity. |
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