There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
(09-27-2020, 12:00 AM)sik94 Wrote: I was never quite sold on the Nw's to be honest. They just don't have that confidence or the aura to step into an unknown area and stamp their authority. Any major confrontation with the Delaporte's was always gonna go down this way.
That easly can be said also about De Laportes.
The scenario is completely different.
since the arrival of the 4 N'waswitshaka males when they decided to involved on a "fight" they have fall on the hand of the Gowrie males and without counting that much earlier they were being chasing off by two male lions in KNP.
That is often the case with young males. Majingis for example many times were chassed around by Mlovatis before MAjings decided it is their time. I bet through last couple of months in which N'was were terrytorial they grow to role of terrytorial male. I might be wrong of course, but I would not give De Laportes more credit than to N'was. If anyway De Laportes indeed set their task on taking over territory of N'was males then soon we will get to know who is right there. Also the other think is it is still not confirmed that 4 De Laportes are together and if there is only two of them then even if one N'was is indeed no more then still in 3vs2 N'was should be stronger party and may take revenge.
(09-27-2020, 12:00 AM)sik94 Wrote: I was never quite sold on the Nw's to be honest. They just don't have that confidence or the aura to step into an unknown area and stamp their authority. Any major confrontation with the Delaporte's was always gonna go down this way.
That easly can be said also about De Laportes.
We don't know a lot about the Delaporte's but they are seasoned males. The fact that they did this to the Nw's is kind of proof you can't put them in the same category. I'd have to disagree here.
They are coalition of four which was scatered around by two Mpondo male. That is not very promising when it comes to coalition strength.
(09-27-2020, 12:00 AM)sik94 Wrote: I was never quite sold on the Nw's to be honest. They just don't have that confidence or the aura to step into an unknown area and stamp their authority. Any major confrontation with the Delaporte's was always gonna go down this way.
That easly can be said also about De Laportes.
We don't know a lot about the Delaporte's but they are seasoned males. The fact that they did this to the Nw's is kind of proof you can't put them in the same category. I'd have to disagree here.
They are coalition of four which was scatered around by two Mpondo male. That is not very promising when it comes to coalition strength.
Yeah, that was not a good showing for the Delaporte's if that's how it happened. But if that's what the Mpondo's did to Delaporte's, imagine how they would rip through the Nw's. I don't rate Delaporte's at the level of the Mpondo's or 2018ish Mantimahle's, but we simply don't get enough info on them to properly be able to rate them. They are no Nw's though.
(09-27-2020, 12:18 AM)Potato Wrote: "Thomas More just confirmed that they did fight DeLaporte males."
Which two of the De Laportes?
" Remember the Bboys stopped expanding their territory after losing Scrapper. "
BBoys took over their 3 prides in later part of 2015 and there they stoped expansion. Scrapper died in later part of 2016.
"3 Males going north with no confidence and facing 2 Big Bad Bboys who might be old but are beasts in prime condition is not exactly a good idea and it's the same going east towards the S Avocas."
N'was also are coming into their prime. Why do you think N'was won't be able to compete with other adults even having numarical advantage? I think even 3 N'was would be favourites against both Birminghams and Avocas due to coalition numbers. I do not think either Avocas nor Birminghams are so beastly to easly chase out numerically superior adult oponents. That is if N'was already have enough confidence to take such fight which I bet they have as they are already terrytorial for the couple of months and should be already grown up to that role.
Wrong the Bboys were seen in the Northern parts of Londolozi in the start of 2016. It was even speculated that the Bboys were the ones who mauled ginger in 2016 as they were seen expanding and were seen in Elephant Plains at the time. They were also pushing back the Selati north and were coming further and further into Mala Mala Game Reserve. You're also wrong that scrapper died in the latter half of 2016. He died in April and was injured since March. Like I said once and I'll say it again. The Birminghams stopped expanding after scrapper died. Thank you. Your second point, do you think 3 N'waswitshaka are going to be as confident as 4? Do you think 3 has a better chance against the Bboys and East against the S Avocas than 4 do? Numbers doesn't always play the part. Look at the Vurhami vs the Mjejane. 6v3 became 2v3 in less than a few months. Confidence, attitude and experience sometimes plays the bigger role in lion warfare. The Mapogos weren't easily able to takeover because of just being 6v4 but because they were aggressive and had an 8 year old monster leader and 3 were heading into their 6th year, if 6 lions the same like the N'waswitshaka entered the territory of 4 Males like the Bboys, I doubt it would have gone as swiftly. Same goes here. I'm not saying they won't have a successful future because lions are unpredictable but that's how most battles go.
I would not say that Birmingham changed in terms of desire to expand with Scrapper's dead. They were seen once or twice in Londolozi throughout their reign in northern SS. They never seem to be willing to expand there. They were moving about equally much to southern Manyeleti and to EP before Scrapper's dead as after it. They made effort to expand deeper into Mala Mala in late 2017, way after Scrapper's death.
"Your second point, do you think 3 N'waswitshaka are going to be as confident as 4?"
No, obviously confidance is bound with coalition strenght and obviously their coalition strenght willl drop with losing member.
"Do you think 3 has a better chance against the Bboys and East against the S Avocas than 4 do?"
That is not what I said. I said that as coalition of 3 they still will be stronger on paper than at least most of coalitions of 2 including Birminghams and Avocas.
" Numbers doesn't always play the part"
Numbers always are the most important factor althrough not the only factor.
" Look at the Vurhami vs the Mjejane. 6v3 became 2v3 in less than a few months."
Mjejanes proved to be bigger, stronger, more confident and most importanty they cooperated with each other very well, staying together and catching Vurhamis separated. Such situations may happen of course, but why would we be so sure that Avocas and Birminghams are as supperior over N'was as Mjejanes were over Vurhamis.
The following 1 user Likes Potato's post:1 user Likes Potato's post • BA0701
(09-27-2020, 12:00 AM)sik94 Wrote: I was never quite sold on the Nw's to be honest. They just don't have that confidence or the aura to step into an unknown area and stamp their authority. Any major confrontation with the Delaporte's was always gonna go down this way.
That easly can be said also about De Laportes.
The scenario is completely different.
since the arrival of the 4 N'waswitshaka males when they decided to involved on a "fight" they have fall on the hand of the Gowrie males and without counting that much earlier they were being chasing off by two male lions in KNP.
That is often the case with young males. Majingis for example many times were chassed around by Mlovatis before MAjings decided it is their time. I bet through last couple of months in which N'was were terrytorial they grow to role of terrytorial male. I might be wrong of course, but I would not give De Laportes more credit than to N'was. If anyway De Laportes indeed set their task on taking over territory of N'was males then soon we will get to know who is right there. Also the other think is it is still not confirmed that 4 De Laportes are together and if there is only two of them then even if one N'was is indeed no more then still in 3vs2 N'was should be stronger party and may take revenge.
Yes of course,They can do a revenge like the Majingilane males have do it 10 years ago,However,If one of the N'waswitshaka has died the confidence on those boys can fall a lot more than we can think...
However,This is a good leeson for them,only the strongest ones lives to count it
(09-27-2020, 12:00 AM)sik94 Wrote: I was never quite sold on the Nw's to be honest. They just don't have that confidence or the aura to step into an unknown area and stamp their authority. Any major confrontation with the Delaporte's was always gonna go down this way.
That easly can be said also about De Laportes.
We don't know a lot about the Delaporte's but they are seasoned males. The fact that they did this to the Nw's is kind of proof you can't put them in the same category. I'd have to disagree here.
They are coalition of four which was scatered around by two Mpondo male. That is not very promising when it comes to coalition strength.
Yeah, that was not a good showing for the Delaporte's if that's how it happened. But if that's what the Mpondo's did to Delaporte's, imagine how they would rip through the Nw's. I don't rate Delaporte's at the level of the Mpondo's or 2018ish Mantimahle's, but we simply don't get enough info on them to properly be able to rate them. They are no Nw's though.
The questing is if that situation shows how strong Mpondos are or how weak are De Laportes. I would say both. It is incredibly poor for coalition of 4 to be scaterred around and forced to leave their territorry by two males. Why do not even know if all De LAported joined together again after they were chassed around by Mpondos.
The following 1 user Likes Potato's post:1 user Likes Potato's post • BA0701
(09-27-2020, 12:00 AM)sik94 Wrote: I was never quite sold on the Nw's to be honest. They just don't have that confidence or the aura to step into an unknown area and stamp their authority. Any major confrontation with the Delaporte's was always gonna go down this way.
That easly can be said also about De Laportes.
The scenario is completely different.
since the arrival of the 4 N'waswitshaka males when they decided to involved on a "fight" they have fall on the hand of the Gowrie males and without counting that much earlier they were being chasing off by two male lions in KNP.
That is often the case with young males. Majingis for example many times were chassed around by Mlovatis before MAjings decided it is their time. I bet through last couple of months in which N'was were terrytorial they grow to role of terrytorial male. I might be wrong of course, but I would not give De Laportes more credit than to N'was. If anyway De Laportes indeed set their task on taking over territory of N'was males then soon we will get to know who is right there. Also the other think is it is still not confirmed that 4 De Laportes are together and if there is only two of them then even if one N'was is indeed no more then still in 3vs2 N'was should be stronger party and may take revenge.
Yes of course,They can do a revenge like the Majingilane males have do it 10 years ago,However,If one of the N'waswitshaka has died the confidence on those boys can fall a lot more than we can think...
However,This is a good leeson for them,only the strongest ones lives to count it
If it is only two De Laportes they are up against I bet they will be still confident. If all 4 De Laportes are together then it would be much more difficult, but still I wouldn't count out N'was too soon.
The following 1 user Likes Potato's post:1 user Likes Potato's post • BA0701
(09-27-2020, 12:18 AM)Potato Wrote: "Thomas More just confirmed that they did fight DeLaporte males."
Which two of the De Laportes?
" Remember the Bboys stopped expanding their territory after losing Scrapper. "
BBoys took over their 3 prides in later part of 2015 and there they stoped expansion. Scrapper died in later part of 2016.
"3 Males going north with no confidence and facing 2 Big Bad Bboys who might be old but are beasts in prime condition is not exactly a good idea and it's the same going east towards the S Avocas."
N'was also are coming into their prime. Why do you think N'was won't be able to compete with other adults even having numarical advantage? I think even 3 N'was would be favourites against both Birminghams and Avocas due to coalition numbers. I do not think either Avocas nor Birminghams are so beastly to easly chase out numerically superior adult oponents. That is if N'was already have enough confidence to take such fight which I bet they have as they are already terrytorial for the couple of months and should be already grown up to that role.
Wrong the Bboys were seen in the Northern parts of Londolozi in the start of 2016. It was even speculated that the Bboys were the ones who mauled ginger in 2016 as they were seen expanding and were seen in Elephant Plains at the time. They were also pushing back the Selati north and were coming further and further into Mala Mala Game Reserve. You're also wrong that scrapper died in the latter half of 2016. He died in April and was injured since March. Like I said once and I'll say it again. The Birminghams stopped expanding after scrapper died. Thank you. Your second point, do you think 3 N'waswitshaka are going to be as confident as 4? Do you think 3 has a better chance against the Bboys and East against the S Avocas than 4 do? Numbers doesn't always play the part. Look at the Vurhami vs the Mjejane. 6v3 became 2v3 in less than a few months. Confidence, attitude and experience sometimes plays the bigger role in lion warfare. The Mapogos weren't easily able to takeover because of just being 6v4 but because they were aggressive and had an 8 year old monster leader and 3 were heading into their 6th year, if 6 lions the same like the N'waswitshaka entered the territory of 4 Males like the Bboys, I doubt it would have gone as swiftly. Same goes here. I'm not saying they won't have a successful future because lions are unpredictable but that's how most battles go.
I would not say that Birmingham changed in terms of desire to expand with Scrapper's dead. They were seen once or twice in Londolozi throughout their reign in northern SS. They never seem to be willing to expand there. They were moving about equally much to southern Manyeleti and to EP before Scrapper's dead as after it. They made effort to expand deeper into Mala Mala in late 2017, way after Scrapper's death.
"Your second point, do you think 3 N'waswitshaka are going to be as confident as 4?"
No, obviously confidance is bound with coalition strenght and obviously their coalition strenght willl drop with losing member.
"Do you think 3 has a better chance against the Bboys and East against the S Avocas than 4 do?"
That is not what I said. I said that as coalition of 3 they still will be stronger on paper than at least most of coalitions of 2 including Birminghams and Avocas.
" Numbers doesn't always play the part"
Numbers always are the most important factor althrough not the only factor.
" Look at the Vurhami vs the Mjejane. 6v3 became 2v3 in less than a few months."
Mjejanes proved to be bigger, stronger, more confident and most importanty they cooperated with each other very well, staying together and catching Vurhamis separated. Such situations may happen of course, but why would we be so sure that Avocas and Birminghams are as supperior over N'was as Mjejanes were over Vurhamis.
The Bboys are already more impressive than the N'waswitshaka and more intelligent. When the Bboys sensed the N'waswitshaka were closing in on their territory, they made a preemptive strike and pushed the N'waswitshaka further south. If the Bboys managed to catch one alone, the same thing would have happened as the Mjejane. You basically agreed with me here, confidence, experience and attitude play a bigger role than just the numbers.
(09-27-2020, 12:00 AM)sik94 Wrote: I was never quite sold on the Nw's to be honest. They just don't have that confidence or the aura to step into an unknown area and stamp their authority. Any major confrontation with the Delaporte's was always gonna go down this way.
That easly can be said also about De Laportes.
We don't know a lot about the Delaporte's but they are seasoned males. The fact that they did this to the Nw's is kind of proof you can't put them in the same category. I'd have to disagree here.
They are coalition of four which was scatered around by two Mpondo male. That is not very promising when it comes to coalition strength.
Yeah, that was not a good showing for the Delaporte's if that's how it happened. But if that's what the Mpondo's did to Delaporte's, imagine how they would rip through the Nw's. I don't rate Delaporte's at the level of the Mpondo's or 2018ish Mantimahle's, but we simply don't get enough info on them to properly be able to rate them. They are no Nw's though.
The questing is if that situation shows how strong Mpondos are or how weak are De Laportes. I would say both. It is incredibly poor for coalition of 4 to be scaterred around and forced to leave their territorry by two males. Why do not even know if all De LAported joined together again after they were chassed around by Mpondos.
Well.
No ones knows if only two Mpondo have chased to the DeLaporte male becasue we only see just 2 males,However,,A coalition of five mean bussiness and probably they were contanstly calling each-other.
DeLaporte in my opinion not are the most strongest coalition in KNP,But being four males is a advantage...
Wow, I remember me the first time that I saw them walking together and you star to get attached on them and one day you learn that they may have lose member...
They remember me Selati... Very sad...
The following 1 user Likes Fatlum's post:1 user Likes Fatlum's post • BA0701
It was a really long time ago that I remember seeing the four DeLaporte's together. With no females or major prides in that area I don't think they will stay there for long. In a sense that area is ideal for a coalition like the Nwas where they get a chance to bulk up, gain experience and move on.
(09-27-2020, 01:53 AM)Potato Wrote: " If the Bboys managed to catch one alone, the same thing would have happened as the Mjejane"
If is a key word here. It can be as well other way around and BBoys could be cough separated.
Actually,they did when they chased by first time to the four N'waswitshaka,Tinyo chased to three of the four,and Nhenha to 1 N'waswitshaka.
Yes, that was huge mistake and Birmingham male was lucky that N'was wasn't yet confident enough to turn around and take their chance.
Yeah,It was a very mistake by the BBoys,However,They not were far from each-other,if the N'waswitshaka goes back and chases to Tinyo Nhenha will be there to help him
