ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris)

[Shadow]

I put some extra info. I checked and I had shared one email from Batalov in moderator discussions in July 2019, but at that time there were some other things going on and it wasn´t discussed more at the time. It also explains why you @peter couldn´t know all what I got to know during discussions with him, sorry for that.


So why I´m not convinced of these couple of relatively new articles comes from that time.

One thing is, that when I asked about bear-tiger confrontations, I specifically asked from him if he knows any case in which a tiger would have killed an adult male brown bear. He didn´t give even one such case. 

Again, I asked specifically about Chlamid and what happend and does he know how he is? And Batalov had no idea. And this is one thing to take into account since our discussion happened in July 2019, over 1,5 years after those articles about Chlamid and Rachel. If Ochkarik would have made a move as "revenge", which I personally don´t see as realistic option in any way, it would have happened already in late 2017 or early 2018 and Batalov would have known about it. But he didn´t.

And if I now would be again lucky and get in contact with him, he can´t change it. If he would say, that ”yeah, Ochkarik killed Chlamid” he would contarict with himself completely and lose all credibility what comes to that case.

If he would say, what seems to be obvious, that inaccurate articles, or that he just gave a good story even though not exactly what happened, it would just confirm what he told already earlier. But both possibilities just keep situation as it is, there are no reliable and confirmed cases of tigers killing adult male brown bears in RFE. That´s why I don´t see it relevant or important to even to try ask from him now anything.

I have read from somewhere, that he is a man with many stories and in such way, that journalist wasn´t 100% convinced, that all what Batalov tells is 100% true. Even though he is one great conservationist and undeniably knows tigers and bears. But it can be, that he has something similar as Corbett for instance, great legacy as naturalist and conservationist, but also telling some stories for entertainment partially, to give people some myths even though not necassarily true... I can´t blame him if so, his great work for tigers will be his legacy and he is worth of tremendous respect. But he has also that ecosafari business, good stories can lure some people, paying customers.

Good to remember, that a made up story (if so) for a tiger killing a bear even when not happened, isn´t a big deal in any way. It´s a big deal only for a very small number of people. So I can´t blame Batalov if he has done so.


What comes to good stories. When thinking what happened 2017. A big male bear followed tigress usurping her kills for some period of time. Then tigress was told to ”scream” in odd way causing bear to move away. Nice story and when first reading about it, big temptation to believe it. But at this age I can´t anymore take good stories as they would be actually what happened always.

When thinking situation, a big male brown bear following a tigress maybe 1/3 of his own size or even less, it for sure can´t roar or ”scream” in any way causing the bear to do more than snort nonchalantly while continuing following. Only if that sound was so odd, that bear would have confused it to possible people near, it might have caused it to move away. Bears avoid people, not an animal which it is used to ”rob” time after time.

What comes to it, that Batalov has used expression ”at that moment bear stopped following her”, he can´t know it. He has seen Chlamid in photos from camera trap, not being right after him, when ”scream” of Rachel was heard in the forest, assuming that it was really tigress making that sound and not some other animal. Metaphors are used often in text, but sometimes it´s good to use some time to think about real situations and what is possible to know for anyone and what are guesses and assumptions.

And from here we get to another part of that story. Batalov told in one article, that they sent hunters to track Chlamid and kill it, because they were worried about cubs of Rachel and how they survive if Chlamid continues to harass her and taking all her kills. It was told, that they had still permit to shoot one bear in that hunting season. And when using common sense, this is the reason why Chlamid moved away and disappeared. When a bear is hunted by people, it does all it can to escape from that situation. Without dogs it´s hard work to find a bear in the forest. So I´m not surprised when I saw Batalov telling, that they didn´t manage to find and shoot Chlamid.

And here again one contradiction and odd thing. If alleged tiger scream was seen to make a bear to go away, how come hunters were needed to send to hunt the bear to protect cubs as was told?? There was no danger anymore if bear went away after all. So I have to assume, that bear didn´t care about that sound and hunters were sent to kill it. Leading to it, that bear noticed people before they noticed him and went away.


And because all what I´ve seen lately about Chlamid and Ochkarik has been speculation, I will put here some more. While one possibility is, that Chlamid managed to avoid hunters and find a place to hibernate, there is another possibility too. Some hunters might have found it and poached it at the time. Or came back later, with knowledge where they can find him and then later poached it. That big bear is very tempting to any poacher.

Many possibilities what happened back then.


Then these new articles. Three articles and when I briefly looked those, three different stories.

In one a bear vanished and some remains found from tiger excrement.

In another story bear vanished and only heels found.... well, if only heels found, it would be a very old ”carcass” and eaten by all possible scavengers and not anymore too much possibilites to figure out what happened to it.

Then in third story already cubs of Rachel had died to starvation because of following bear. But in 2019 Batalov mentioned that cubs of Rachel were already two years old and starting to hunt separately, I have heard about many things, but not about dead cubs hunting.

So when I read three different articles with quite different stories, I start to wonder is the problem reporters or the changing story. Usually when people tell from their fresh memory, they tell same story to different people, because they don´t need to try to focus to remember what they told last time. But when story comes from imagination it tends to variate even in short time, because there is no real memory to use.


I respect Batalov a lot and I hope that these new stories suddenly out of nowhere are sloppy journalism, because other option is that Batalov lose some credibility. Too big contradiction.

All in all, personally I still wait if some day a solid case is found in which adult male brown bear would have been killed by a tiger. Then again I wonder sometimes, why I wait it? What if one day it happens? Does it change something in big picture?

Nope. If one credible case can be found once or twice in a century or two, it´s practically nothing. It´s one reason why I have lost a lot of interest to this topic. Quite obvious thing is, that male brown bears do need to worry about people, not about tigers. And pretty much vice versa, male brown bears don´t disturb male tigers too often.

This is how I see things, some others see in some other way. But it´s always so, when there is no solid proof to one way or another. I consider only one thing proven, what comes to Chlamid, Rachel and Ochkarik. I believe, that Chlamid followed Rachel at least some time because those camera trap photos seem to be ok. And of course it, that Chlamid was and can still be quite  big boy, no matter in what way I have looked those photos, his shoulder height is very impressive. Reply