Rainforest Leopards

[Luipaard]

(08-23-2019, 12:59 AM)Shadow Wrote:

(08-23-2019, 12:42 AM)Luipaard Wrote:

(08-23-2019, 12:25 AM)Shadow Wrote:

(08-23-2019, 12:18 AM)Luipaard Wrote:

(08-22-2019, 11:43 PM)Shadow Wrote:

(08-22-2019, 11:03 PM)Luipaard Wrote:

(08-21-2019, 03:07 PM)Shadow Wrote:

(08-21-2019, 12:10 PM)Luipaard Wrote: Becouse as we know, larger leopards are more capable of taking on heavy prey which is why I bolded this part:

Quote:Ecologically, their are certainly the apex predator in our closed forest systems here, as you state, and commonly used prey species are large. Males predominantly killed red river hogs in my dense forest sites, while in forest-savanna mosaics like northern Lope young forest buffalo become an important prey item seasonally. Gorilla and chimp are also regularly taken at all sites.

I've used the skull measurements argument many times since they're a good indicator of an animal its size (rather than weighing a gorged animal) and he stated this:

Quote:We have 3 skulls of sub-adult males now (2 killed by poachers and one found dead), and the skulls are fairly large

Being the apex predator means that there are no limitations (e.g. being small and slender to avoid bigger predators by climbing trees) so this also results in an increase of size.

For now I have two Panthera researchers (with Philipp Henschel being the leading expert in West and Central-Africa, Jo Taylor being the other one) both admitting their bigger and more robust appearance and yet you're questioning my 'claim'? Not even talking about the skulls measurements where the larger ones originate from Central Africa.

So we have leopards in equatorial forests predominantly preying upon large as red river hogs and young forest buffalo, they're the apex predator and have larger skulls than any other leopard subspecies. Photographic evidence also show us impressive leopards with many males having the appearance of a jaguar, the so called 'leopard on steroids'.

You have every right to think otherwise but I think we can safely assume that they're bigger and more robust, based on skull measurements and their appearance on photos/videos. And of course Philipp Henschel's conclusion:

Quote:It certainly makes sense for them to become big, heavy ambush predators in this environment

Oh and for those wondering, this part was about a photos I shared where I forgot to credit Philipp

Quote:Yes, it was indeed one of the first I recorded in Gabon, and no worries at all. This just happens a lot

The leopard:

*This image is copyright of its original author

Maybe you could ask from Henschel, what he thinks. I mean he has for sure seen leopards elsewhere too, so he could be asked what is his opinion about sizes when comparing these leopards to other populations?
It would be always interesting to know, but when asking questions it is also about it, that asking right questions to get clear answers. So yes, they are big, but does Henschel think, that they are bigger than other leopard populations/subspecies in Africa? Now when you have contact, try to ask that question, then we would have at least his opinion, not different kind of speculations what something he say means.

I've contacted Henschel:

*This image is copyright of its original author

Yes, I didn´t doubt that. I was just saying, that if/when you are interested if rainforest leopards are bigger than other populations, make a direct question to him. Does he think that they are bigger than other leopard populations/subspecies? And if so, what makes him to think in that way? Then he answers what he answers.

If that is what he feels, it of course isn´t scientific record, but it would be still interesting to know what person like him thinks. Naturally his earlier answer already said it, that he can give only his opinion. Still opinion of a person like him, who actually is there, is more interesting than opinion from "average Joe".

I will ask these questions once he's back in Gabon.

Luckily no hurry, sometimes it takes time to get replies from busy people.

Indeed, I'm glad he takes time to answer me even though he's in the field. Same goes for Jo Taylor who kindly answered me back. Once Henschel is back Gabon, hopefully we can make our conclusions.

My guess is, that he gives quite conservative opinion. But you never know, maybe he says something really interesting even if not able or willing to say too strong statements. But as I said, think about things which you are curious and make such questions, that answers have to be then quite specific. For instance about gorillas, could he tell estimations, that how many are young, how many adult females and are there even adult males too hunted in these days? I think, that adult males are very rare and maybe no observations. But if you don´t put too many questions in one message, he might answer in relatively short time.

Great idea regarding the gorilla predation. Some say they also predate on silverbacks, other claim they focus on young and vulnerable ones, especially at night.

Regarding the silverbacks, I honestly don't think they would focus on such large prey unless it would be a prime adult male leopard. I suspect silverbacks attack leopard in order to protect the other which could result in fatal injuries. But hey that's my view of it.

We do know that Henschel stated "Gorilla and chimp are also regularly taken at all sites." Thus gorilla's are prey for leopards, there's no questioning about that. Reply