There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
You may have noticed and appreciated I did not counter-posted you after your post #320 and #324 pag. 22 of the thread ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - TIGERS (Panthera tigris). I did not to avoid appearing polemical. This time you are forcing me to do it and I may also do the same in that thread at some point although it may sound off-topic by now. Please bear in mind that I am taking action for the benefit of accuracy only and NOT to be polemical or to demonstrate this or that as I am not interested in it.
Before I will proceed with my defence, I highlight that I am understanding from your statement
In the days of AVA and other forums, this was regarded as news. The reason was that adult wild male lions, depending on region, were supposed to average between 160-190 kg. roughly. After the page above was posted, negociations and debates started. They, as far as I know, were never quite concluded. As a result, politics took over. This, of course, resulted in countless wars in many forums. The intention is to prevent destruction over here and the best way to get there is to stick to the facts.”
that the page of the paper concerning the 212 kg estimate became one of the major causes of AVA collapse! I would imagine a similar earthquake happened when the documents from Kerley et al. (2005) and Slaght et al. (2005) on Amur tiger weights become known in AVA at some point (I privately received those two papers in 2006 or early 2007 at most, but I believe AVA become aware of them a few years later). I have no words for it.
And now as you suggest I will
“return to the facts”
and
“Proceed by all means, but remember it would appreciated if you, when entering hypotheticals on Ngorogoro, would include other regions (like Kazirangha). There is, in fact, more on them. I will post a few measurements and weights in the tiger extinction thread shortly. Maybe the best way to continue, if I may say so, would be facts.”
FACTS
1A) Kazirangha Tigers
I am not aware to date of any suggestion and/or data appearing in peer-reviewed scientific publications stating Kazirangha Tigers are any heavier and/or larger then wild tigers from other Parks or Reserves in the Indian subcontinent (basically the whole Bengal tiger range) or elsewhere in Asia. I am very much looking forward for scientific data to emerge from current research enlightening the issue.
To my knowledge to date conjectures and suggestions can only be based on hunting records (fair if reliable, accurate and unbiased), but any statistically sounded comparison should be done among populations living in the same era and it may not reflect the current situation.
I leave any suggestion based on pictures to other people. I am not interested and it is not for me. This is “hypothetical”. Chest girth range of Ngorongoro Crater lions provided by Packer as 1270-1340 mm is a fact.
1B) Ngorongoro Crater lions
You stated
“I guess all of those interested in wild big cats heard about Ngorogoro lions and rumours about their alleged size. In this respect, they compare to Kazirangha tigers. Apart from rumours, both also compare in that they seem to be very suited to those interested in extra-large big cats, angles, pictures and a bit of mischief.”
I do not release and discuss details of unpublished info in forums for a number of reasons, above all when it is not necessary. It is just more then enough to say that you discard as a “rumour” the fact that chest girth range of Ngorongoro Crater lions given by worldwide acknowledged zoologist Dr Packer is 1270-1340 mm presumably referring to the adult male class. The range has been provided in a private e-mail and not in a peer-reviewed scientific document (therefore caution should be taken to assimilate this info) and is believed to refer to a limited number of individuals.
From this range it is possible to understand that the (unknown) chest girth average is considerably higher then any chest girth average provided by Smuts et al. (1980) for different lion populations to which we can all refer as an accurate guideline for lions, even if this average is just fractionally above 1270 mm (it must be and I statistically estimated it a value above or around the range median in a sample of reasonable size). Because of the high correlation between chest girth and body mass statistics suggests that there is very little doubt that the average body mass of Ngorongoro Crater male lions is higher then that of any other lion population. How much it is not known, but reasonably accurate body mass estimate from chest girth suggests within the known limitations of regression equation predictions that the average should be higher then 200 kg. The estimate provided by Brown, Packer et al. (1991) based on the real average chest girth is 212 kg and it has been obtained by using an equation given to them by U. S. Seal reported in the paper with an unidentified typing mistake.
BODY SIZE AND MASS OF NGORONGORO CRATER LIONS
