Who is the "king" of tigers? - Bengal or Amur

[WaveRiders]

 
Tigerluver and GuateGojira

I may agree on the fact that the time a tiger would have had a kill at his disposition was likely more around 12 hours then the 12/18 hours I initially suggested.

However remember that the period of 24 hours of feeding refers basically entirely to the night only as tigers during the day leave the kill to come back in the following evening if they know there is more to eat from it.


Guategojira
 
“On the weight issue, you are speculating too much now. The basic premise that some stomach content most be included in any animal is correct, but to say that the Sauraha male weighed only 210 kg or less is rubbish.”
 
It seems that in this forum it is a popular sport to twist other poster’s statements when sthese tatements are not shared. I kindly suggest you to always read carefully things before take action. Till it is in a forum it has no implications if you do not understand paragraphs correctly. In real life it is a different story.
 
Show me the sentences where I suggest Sauraha male weighed only 210 kg or less. What I wrote was NOT weight estimates of the particular individual called Sauaraha male. They were estimates based on chest girth or on head-and-body length referring to the highest probability of weight (range) that a (generic) Indian male tiger of average build with the same chest girth or the same head-and-body length then the Sauraha male would have. All of that was not related to the particular individual called Sauaraha male. Mu estimates suggested if anything that the Sauraha male was indeed a very massive tiger for his length and for his chest girth as well although in my opinion it had some food in the stomach when he hit the scale.
 
BTW, based on chest girth I suggested highest probabilities in the range 225-240 kg for the generic average Indian male tiger with chest girth of 1400 mm (again NOT the Sauraha male)
 
I hope you understood what I meant now
 
I also had written
 
“Finally again you misunderstood. I never put in doubts those two males bottomed a scale of 600 lb (272 kg). As no sort of mistakes have been admitted to have been done by the authors, this is undisputable official info. Therefore if the measurements were correctly taken (scale zeroed if necessary, scales checked for accuracy, weight operation properly executed, etc.) the body mass of those animals in the conditions they have been captured (more then likely baited) and weighed was at least 272 kg minus the tools necessary to lift the animal (if the scale could not be zeroed after having rigged the equipment) or at least 272 kg if the scales were zeroed and still able to read 600 lb. Period. Then we can speculate on the stomach contents, be surprised by the short size of the Sauraha male and the not so huge chest and neck girths I would have instead expected in relationship to his very high weight and relatively short size so on.
 
 
Also note that my discussion started with speculating on differentiating the possible statistically estimable stomach contents based on Sunquist (1981) and Smith et al. (1983) info for the adult males and females of Smith et al. (1983) sample instead of using the fixed figure of 14,0 kg for both adult males and females as GuateGojira did in his table. I focused on the average adult male and female weight given at 235 kg and 140 kg, and the maximum male weight given at 261 kg (evidently not the Sauraha male) and the maximum female weight given at 164 kg (more then likely the one measured for F101 when she was close to give birth).
 
I never talked of Chitawan tigers all gorged (meaning full belly and possibly eating 15-20 % of their empty stomach weight) when weighed. Nor I wrote Chitawan adult male tiger cannot reach 270 kg in body mass. I mentioned M105 and M026. these are the two 270+ kg males mentioned by Dinerstein (2003). Then there is the 261 kg male by Smith et al. (1983). There have been speculations this latter figure is also an estimate of either M105 or M026 weight or that it was a scale weight of M026 weighed at another recapture. I believe it is an actual weight of another male (not M105 or M026).”
 
and
 
“In my first two posts on this thread I did not mention the Sauraha male and I never alleged he was at full stomach when weighed (although it can be suggested he likely had at least “some” food in the stomach from a picture of him narcotized – how much? Nobody really knows). I talked about the Sauaraha male in relationship to his scale weight exceeding 270 kg in the condition he was weighed (baited), his head and body length and chest girth.”
 
 
I never suggested Nepal tigers were gorged with 30 kg or more of meat. I suggested they had more then likely some food in the stomach. I am sorry, but you did not understand.
 
I suggested that instead of accounting for the same 14 kg of meat to both males and females that you suggested, it would have been more appropriated to differentiate that for males and females and I came up based on some consideration with ca. 18 kg for the average 235 kg figure and 19,5 kg for the male weighing 261 kg (not the Sauraha male). Hopefully it is clear now for you.
 
 
Considering factors like solid and fluid mass flow, Oxygen consumption and so on I already did some speculation in 2004 in AVA. A tiger breaths, urinates and defecates of course. But also drinks. It is a complicate matter and I agree on that. But account for the same figure for males and females as GuateGojira did on a statistical basis is less correct then what I suggested. May be both figures are slight overestimates on average.
 
Feel free to suggest the stomach contents was no more then 5-6 kg on average and for the Sauraha male as well. I would say 0 kg if this make you happier. I have enough.
 
 
FINALLY
 
I take the E-mails you showed into considerations.
 
My question is. Do you know the source where the measurement details of Sauraha Male and M102 come from? I mean head-and-body length, chest girth, neck girth, canine length and so on? I know it of course. It is NOT Sunquist. So you accept measurements taken somewhere from the web and you do not know the original source. The measurements come from an official document of which a scan copy of the related page has been circulating in the web for many years. You should know that. That official document states the length was measured “following the curves along the back”.
 
I say again that I take the E-mails you showed into relevant consideration. So we have an official document and two private e-mails not received by you (I am understanding). I am wise enough to accept the possibility that the zoologist who wrote that official document (and darted the Sauraha Male, M102 and other tigers) made the big mistake to confuse the “along the curves” and the “straight line” meaning “between pegs”  concepts of measurement in describing on the official document how the measurements have been taken. How high is the possibility of such a mistake? Personally I would be tempted to say and hope for that zoologist rather low. But then we have the e-mails from Sunquist. Make a call with this confusing information if all genuine is not easy. I am more inclined to trust the official document. Somebody (not me) should ask Sunquist an explanation.
 
For now I will not show the page of that official document. The page exists. The reason I do not show it is because many people should already know that page and I invite them to show it.
 
 
                           WaveRiders
 

 

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