There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
(04-15-2019, 01:00 PM)Luipaard Wrote: And do you know what kind of leopard your zoo has? You can't compare a small leopard subspecies with a large subspecies of jaguar.
3 are from East Africa, 2 are Persian (the most beautifull specimens I've ever seen with nice elongated body). I don't know the origin of the 3 jaguars, most probably from Brazil. Again jaguars are 1,5-2 times more massive, I have seen them hundred times. I don't talk so much about linear size - length or height but about immense, almost bear-like robustness of the jaguars. Look how jaguar is walking, almost like a bear, for sure not gracious like other cats. In same linear dimentions of jaguar you could place 1,5 leopards, which are much more slender.
Pantanal is famous as place where big jaguars could be easily spotted. But I dont think that jaguars from other parts of Brazil are much smaller. Amazon rain forest in Brazil and surrounding countries comprise 90% of jaguars in the world and they all are more or less big, not far in size to Pantanals jaguars. True, jaguars from South Mexico are much smaller and have a size of leopards, but their number is insignificant in comparison with jaguars from the endless Amazon forest and they are not representative for the specie. If we get the smallest leopard subspecie - Arabian they are definetily smaller than southern Mexican jaguars, with females Arabian leopards having average body mass of 20 kg... and some of them even 15 kg...
The size of Amazon:
*This image is copyright of its original author
So, lets not turn upsite down a fact that everybody should know from the school - that jaguar is by far the third largest cat in the world.
Quote:Again jaguars are 1,5-2 times more massive
Again, depends which leopard subspecies you're using for your comparison. For example, I would say a jaguar is even 3 times more massive than an Arabian leopard. But same can be said about a Central African leopard, who makes an Arabian leopard look like a different species.
Quote:Look how jaguar is walking, almost like a bear, for sure not gracious like other cats
That has more to do with how they're built overall (e.g. shorter limbs). Check out the anatomy of a jaguar and you know what I'm talking about.
Quote:In same linear dimentions of jaguar you could place 1,5 leopards, which are much more slender.
Again, depends of which subspecies of leopard. Yes, overall they're more slender. But let's not forget that there are bigger, more robust subspecies of leopards out there.
This particular male for example, will be equal next to a Pantanal jaguar
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Which is what I'm constantly trying to say; they overlap in size.
Quote:jaguars from South Mexico are much smaller and have a size of leopards
Not only South Mexico, whole Central America: an adult male from Belize averages 57kg and two male jaguars from the Peruvian Amazon weighed 31 and 37kg for example.
Quote:If we get the smallest leopard subspecie - Arabian they are definetily smaller than southern Mexican jaguars, with females Arabian leopards having average body mass of 20 kg... and some of them even 15 kg...
Well that is my point, they overlap in size (and bulk for some leopard subspecies.).
Quote:So, lets not turn upsite down a fact that everybody should know from the school - that jaguar is by far the third largest cat in the world.
Well I never denied that. What I do know from school is that jaguars weigh 100kg and leopards about 60kg. And that's partly true.
My point is that they overlap in pretty much everything, nothing more, nothing less.
Just to put this in simple way. Leopards aren´t as big as jaguars overall. Some exceptional individuals aren´t same as average. This discussion has started to be ridiculous and it looks like a good time to stop repeating things over and over again. Of course not my decision, but my opinion.
I know they're bigger overall. I never denied that. Also, I think it's a healthy discussion with some good points and arguments.
It's just my opinion and I'll stop repeating it for you so here it is for the last time: yes, some leopard subspecies overlap with Pantanal jaguars, not in averages but still. The same applies to South American jaguars who overlap in size and weight with lionesses.