Size comparisons

[Luipaard]

(04-15-2019, 02:49 PM)Shadow Wrote:

(04-15-2019, 11:19 AM)Luipaard Wrote:

(04-13-2019, 12:20 PM)Shadow Wrote: I have read time to time this leopard-jaguar and leopard subspecies debate. Looks like, that in this jaguar-leopard issue both "sides" write about same thing in slightly different way. Jaguars are bigger as species, when comparing biggest of the big of these two species. Then again biggest leopards are as big and even bigger than most of jaguars. So overlapping happens even though jaguars are third largest big cats as species. I think, that there is nothing unclear in that.

For me personally more interesting thing in this debate, which has been in 3-4 threads so far in one way or another(?), is that which leopards are the biggest and are there any expert opinions/studies? Answer, which this "Jo" (was it that name) gave was interesting, but that still kept this question open, not giving enough information to make big conclusions yet. Some photos shared are for sure very interesting to see, but from photos only it is impossible to make conclusions, I think, that all here understand it if looking closer that issue. Of course it can be seen if some animal looks to be robust or not, but what comes to size and weight, impossible situation if there is nothing right next to animal to what it can be compared. Usually there is nothing such when photo is taken in wildlife.

With some charts I haven´t seen source file, that from where some chart has been copied, those sources are always one interesting thing to see. Many times there has been relevant information when looking closer the sources. Or then those are mentioned earlier and I just haven´t payed attention good enough

But really it would be nice if this size comparison debate would focus to leopard subspecies, because what comes to jaguars-leopards, is there anything relevant really anymore, as far as I see, both agree about basic line, which is, that jaguars are bigger and debate is concerning about some details(?). So why not trying to find out if there really is a clear case concerning leopard subspecies?

It all started with one person claiming that large jaguars are 'much, much' bigger than any leopard, which is false. I have proven that their sizes overlap. The largest leopard vs the largest jaguar won't be a huge difference.

Of course the jaguar is the bigger cat overall, but people need to stop taking Pantanal jaguars as the norm. Not every jaguar weighs 100kg, not even close. 

Regarding the largest subspecies of the leopard; there's a lot of debate but it's safe to say that Persian, Sri lankan and Central African leopards are the largest subspecies.

I agree with pckts, that largest jaguars are considerably bigger than largest leopards. But of course it is also crystal clear, that there is overlapping in size because biggest leopards are bigger than many jaguars. 

But as said, no known leopard isn´t close to what biggest jaguars are, when we are looking at weight and robustness. It is quite clear that if we put an animal weighing 90-100 kg side by side with one weighing about 150 kg, there is a difference. And I think, that pckts has admitted, that there is overlapping. So I don´t know what there is to debate anymore at this point. Sometimes these debates goes to a bit heated up direction from quite small disagreement in some detail or how some expression is understood :)

Anyway I think, that most people believe, that biggest leopards are in weight range 90-100 kg, but then we are talking about exceptional individuals, not something to be seen too often. And same situation with jaguars up to about 150 kg, not something you see every day.

Not fully agreeing here I'm afraid. 90-100kg is common for males of certain subspecies. A 150kg is a freak jaguar, same like that 115kg Persian male. Those are just freak numbers. Same can be said about that Indian leopard who's said to have weighed 113kg:

*This image is copyright of its original author

Take a 90-100kg vs the maximum weight of a jaguar 130kg. There will be a difference no doubt, but again, the jaguar wont be 'much much' bigger. That's all I'm trying to say. Reply