Can we tell how big cats are doing by the number of wild dogs in the area?

[peter]

(01-25-2015, 09:24 PM)'Pantherinae' Wrote: @peter I agree with you, as we have all said about wild dogs and tigers/lions 

and I agree a tiger can kill a smaller bear, but against a large male bear the tiger would stand little chance. 

well lions for sure looks at hyenas as competition and they will kill kill hyenas given the chance, and 4 hyenas at one lions is just for lionesses. you can have 20 hyenas and they won't chase a adult male lion away form the kill. 

 

LIONS AND HYENAS

You're right regarding adult male lions and hyenas. A healthy male in his prime will not often be bothered by hyenas. It is, however, also true hyenas do not hesitate to challenge a pride of lions, males included, when they made a kill. This means they expect a result and the information I have says hyenas stand a good chance to win a battle every now and then. In most cases, they win because of superiority in numbers (combined weight).

In the video you posted, the kill was a small animal. The male lion wasn't bothered, but things could work out different when the reward is more interesting for a group of hungry robbers. Lions dominate other predators, but they can be injured in a clash in spite of that. As soon as they are, they, like tigers, have a big problem. Lions know about hyenas and jaws and, for this reason, try to avoid injury.


TIGERS AND BEARS

Russian authorities agree brown bears should top the table. They are probably right, because bears are significantly heavier than tigers and also able to take damage. In spite of this advantage, biologists, apart from a few exceptions, found no evidence of male tigers displaced at kill sites. Females and immatures, at times, had to share their kill and some were displaced, but males apparently is a different ball game. 

I do not doubt a large male bear would get it his way, but animals of, say, 300 kg. and over are few and far between. An average male bear apparently isn't willing to take any risks with an adult male tiger. And the other way round. I don't think they avoid each other (there are reports about interactions), but serious fights are very rare and victims even more so. 

All in all, I think the story on both is rather incomplete. There's more to it than we think, but there's very little information. The only thing we know for sure is male bears have killed male tigers (two as far as I know), females and immatures in fights, but there's also evidence of male bears killed by male tigers. Schatuns in most cases, but it did happen.


FIGHTS AND PATTERNS

What we want to see, is patterns. Corbett wrote about a large male in India displaced by a big Himalayan bear and researchers found evidence of displacement in Russia. The only thing missing was patterns. There's no doubt bears of all sizes and ages visit tiger kills whenever possible, but that's different from consistent displacement.

The information I have strongly suggests Amur tigers respond differently to bears than Indian tigers. I once tried to get to a table on the outcome of fights near kill sites (predation was not included) and concluded the number of victims on both sides in a period of about half a century was quite impressive. The conclusion was Amur tigers were not taking it lying down. If they would accept bears as regular uninvited guests, they would face a big problem in a region known for the number of bears. They have no option but to defend their kill and that's what we see.

If there are patterns, I would get to bears visiting tiger kills whenever possible (a) and tigers and bears 'duking it out', as Miquelle described it, near kill sites (b). His opinion was underlined by Linda Kerley and others who have experience in Russia. The outcome of fights, according to the table I made, is close to unpredictable ©. 

Tigers win more fights, but that's what one would expect: they are able to withdraw when things don't work out as expected, whereas bears can't. The only thing missing for now is the classified results for different categories. I do not doubt tigers dominate most, but I would agree with the Russians that bears could have an advantage in the category of 400 pounds and over (males in most cases). The advantage they have, however, isn't significant. Not significant enough to displace male tigers on a regular basis, that is. This is why male tigers are not often displaced, I think. But I could be wrong. Reply