Dholes (Cuon alpinus)

[Shadow]

(01-18-2019, 08:55 AM)Greatearth Wrote: About tiger and dhole interaction. I think that tiger is defeating dhole pack most of times.
Just look male grizzly bear is fighting against wolf pack in the USA and male lions are defending its pride against hyena pack in the Africa. Why would powerful animal like tiger, which is more powerful/stronger than lion, would defeated by dhole pack? Dhole is seems to be more dangerous when they are with pack. Still, it would be useless if it is prime powerful male tigers.  Why would grey wolf is heading extinct where tiger population is rising in the Russian Far East? Howeve,r any situations can happen, I am sure dhole pack can kill tigers if entire dholes fight against tiger to the death. Like this one guy in Tanzania killed leopard without weapon when leopard attacked him fist (I heard this 2~3 months ago). Is it common to see man is defeating leopard with his two hands? 95% leopard will easily crush the adult man.
In general, tiger and dhole pack would leave each other alone. It's the same for other animals like bear and crocodile as well.

This discussion is not so much about it, that dholes would be some major problem for tigers. That is not the point. But it has old reputation, which is still interesting in a way, because it is basically only other carnivore in India, which has been told to challenge tigers time to time and in some cases with success. Considering how small it is as individual it is of course interesting, even if not killing tigers. If some Asian lions would make a tiger to flee, no-one would be surprised. But these dholes are about 20 kg individually and still they even today are seen to circle around tiger keeping terrible noice instead just fleeing.

Now for instance Anderson has been mentioned as one source and his credibility has been questioned. Still Anderson is not the source for dhole reputation, that reputation comes back from 19th century if not even before and in that time India and Asia overall was a very different place. Was then something different maybe, dholes were killed mercilessly by man up to 1970 or something and they were very close to go to extinction, maybe even closer than tigers, so situation overall is quite different than in past. Nowadays if they are making sounds to call others to help, maybe none will come. In past there might have been more possible helpers if packs were bigger in average. It is quite natural to think, that if animal has some intellect, it doesn´t challenge big rival really in small numbers, but when there are many, then situation can change. Hyenas have been seen to challenge and attack even male lions in bigger packs, at least when male lion is alone. 4-5 hyenas don´t dare to try their luck.

Anyway this is interesting topic and we will see what old and new sources can be found. Like have some others than William Rice heard or seen tiger to climb to a tree to get away from dholes? That is something what tigers don´t do usually and Rice mention that, but so far only in few lines. Anyway that kind of observations for sure would explain a lot of dhole reputation. Tiger in tree escaping something back then in 19th century, that kind of story would have been spreading even without social media :)

Can some tigers been killed, why not, they are flesh and blood like any animal and their skin has no armour, so if dholes have been more aggressive sometimes and big pack attacking from all directions, of course tiger will bleed, even while killing many dholes. That is of course possible, question is, that are dholes or have they been really willing to lose so many members from a pack as it takes to injure or kill a tiger, it is clear, that price is heavy, even though dholes are small and agile. Reply