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(06-27-2018, 12:06 AM)Pantherinae Wrote:

(06-25-2018, 04:40 AM)SuSpiciouS Wrote: @Pantherinae @Roflcopters @Pckts 

Thanks guys for the wonderful pictures and discussions on the forum. I have been absent here since a last few days but the hard work you guys and people like @Rishi @parvez  and some others put in is commendable.

Anyways coming to this whole dudhwa Male thing. Truth is for someone who has spent watching the tigers in Terai (being brutally honest) seeing giants like him is not an exception. Anyone who has spent his life watching tigers in this region has seen alot of them. And the WII person is absolutely spot on when he says this male is not the only one who is above 300 here. I can tell you there are many more.

That Rajaji tiger has had my attention ever since I saw his photo 2 years back. He is exceptional.

The whole MV2 and Umarpani situation. The truth is somewhere down the line the mistake we all are making is still taking into accounts the older average weights of tigers around the world.

What I mean we see live examples everyday of not one but alot of tigers from different parts of India exceeding everyone's expectation. Maybe the bar is just set wrong.

Maybe new serious research is actually required on India's bengal tiger. Terai region seriously lacks this. For a park like corbett which has roughly 300-350 tigers living around each other its practically impossible to know what giant males are living in there. 

The more images I see more dudhwa the more I believe in my theory that not one rather many males should average 250 or above in India especially in these region.

Assam I don't even want to comment. I have had the pleasure of seeing KZT085 during his prime and he looks every bit big as he does in the photos. Not to mention way bigger than most in central India I have seen. I have seen the likes of Big Bam and Waghdoh. And many others in Kazi look bigger than KZT085 quite easily in the photos.

And lastly, the central Indian tigers are no dwarfs themselves. MV2 at hardly 2 years old during summer is a giant. Uma dwarfed him in battle. And many give Uma a run for his money in Central India.

Then we have late Raja(his photographs, his legacy) and now his son (the Basavankatte Male) I will be honest that guy looks every bit a top dominant male tiger should look like.

So for someone who has been watching tigers since I was a kid all this new weights and exceptional sizes of males and females do not surprise me one bit . Because these tigers have always been there. Most of them underestimated and not much research done on them.

About the whole killing Rhinos, Elephant thing in terai and Assam. I can confirm you I know plenty of trustable accounts of tigers feeding on elephants in corbett. Most of them hunt alone and yes they do hunt the adults too. I am sure that's the case in other parks too.People really underestimate how much amazing things one tiger can do. 

Anyways, But its time we take the research more seriously and for once forget the old data and try to fetch new data which explains our beautiful animals correctly.

Sorry for the long post guys :)

This is so cool! Would love to hear more about you’re travles and how you would rank tigers in size!

Hey @Pantherinae sorry for the late reply. okay here I go if that interests you.

1. I grew up in hilly city of Nainital which is not far away from Corbett(hardly 10-15 kms) away from the outer boundaries of the park. It is also very near to Powalgarh(the place from where the famous Bachelor tiger came from). 10-15 years ago for anyone who grew up in the hills around Corbett seeing a tiger was not a big deal. For one corbett is massive or lets say it was. Tigers although shy were definitely bolder in living around the hills and crossing the hills every now and then. So I have seen many(more than 70 wild tigers I guess in and around corbett) ever since I was a kid. However I would give try to give an unbiased opinion.

2. I have been to several parks. I will mention what I have seen from my naked eye and from close quarters.
   
    Ranthambore-I have seen Ustaad, T42 both in prime and T60 tigress along with her cubs most recently.
    Tadoba- Seen Waghdoh in prime and Matkasur recently.
    Bandhavgarh- Seen Bamera and an unknown tigress.
    Pench- Been there but did not spot any tiger.
    Kanha- Saw Bheema . He was a beautiful tiger I have to say.
    Kaziranga- Seen KZT085 right in the heart of Kohora range. And an unknown but huge tigress. To this day I don't believe she was a tigress but according to my guide she was. she is the biggest female I have ever seen. I am not lying when I say she was as big  
   Dudhwa- Been there just once. Saw a tiger from very far distance but the guy was huge for sure. Was there is 2015 before our gulrighats, rhino killer etc got famous so no idea who I saw.
   Sariska- Seen T-18 (Athara) sister of T-17 and T-19 and daughter of machli. 
   Corbett- Seen many. Most famous one's I have seen are Parwali, Sharmili, Virat Pandit, Khali, Gairal male who took reign when he was a subadult after the death of his father in the area. And many unknown.
   Rajaji- Seen a tigress in Chilla range she was bigger than any I have seen apart from the Kazi girl.
   Chitwan- The biggest male I have seen in my life. Locals called him the 'Hill side Male'.no info on this guy. But big as a bull he was.

Here I go:
The whole who's big is a bit cliched topic and I will tell you why. If we go by frame then nothing comes close to the Terai Tigers. They are simply much longer , equally taller if not more and have a larger frame in general. But I would put my money on Kazirangans in terms of overall weights . KZT085 just had that extra bit of bulk when I saw him and going by the photos its kind of trend among the males there.

1. However, I would say Terai(Dudhwa Corbett and Nepal side) and Kaziranga does have bigger individuals. There could be tigers who could be bulky elsewhere but frame wise mostly nothing comes close to the hills and east of India. Some of them could be less bulky but they are bigger. Also north indians are super long. That sometimes gives you a wrong impression that they aren't very tall. I can tell you that's not the case. 

However, I going by photos I would still say Kaziranga should have the biggest one's. I have been to that park. And there is just a feeling of everything being big there. You can feel it in the air. Much more than Corbett or Dudhwa too. It's a special place without a doubt.

2. Ranthambore tigers are probably most even in terms of size. Females are almost all the same size and so are most of the males. But I didn't find them any bigger than central Indians tigers I have seen. 

Baandhavgarh- Bamera was built like a tank but he was also not a very big tiger. But what he lacked in size he made up for it with muscle and charisma. He is one of the legends.

3. Waghdoh was longer and bulky in fact quite a bit compared to Matkasur whom I saw last year. But Still I don't buy him being taller than most prime central Indian males. Yes he was bulky but he I believe is overestimated as I have seen Bheema in Kanha. Bheema was an outstanding tiger. He would have ruled for years if not for getting stuck in the big 4 battle at mukki. Uma took him to the sword and so did CM so just tells you something about Kanha tigers also. And he didn't looked any shorter than Waghdoh to me in terms of height and length wise also just a slight difference between the two. So I do believe Waghdoh was biggest in Tadoba but I have my doubts whether he was the biggest in Central India as many people used to say about him. 

Also I don't think central indian tigers are any smaller. infact they are giants in their own sense. just that the terai and assam males have that something extra. I don't how to explain it. I would suggest you all to visit the parks and you will know what I am trying to say. The feeling of everything being giant(including tigers) exist in Kaziranga and Terai.

4. South Indian Tigers- Haven't seen any from naked eye but I do believe that Raja and Basavankatte should match up with the biggest in Central India. 

I don't have a lot of photos as generally when I see a tiger I mostly just spend time in being in that moment. even after seeing so many animals in the wild my heart stops everytime I See a tiger. That's the special things about tigers.

Anyways two important things:
1. Biggest Male: The guy in Chitwan followed by a guy I saw in Bijrani zone in Corbett(looked a subadult from his pinkish nose) and lastly good old KZT085 back in his prime. Some unknown I have seen in Corbett from distance especially looked bigger in every way but the first three I have seen from close quarters so gonna talk about them. My guide was however very sure when he said KZT085 is not the biggest male among many he has seen in Kaziranga. The guide was a local and had spent all his life there.
I would say that Rajaji male and new one's from Dudhwa are right up there.

2. Biggest Female: The one in Kaziranga. I to this day believe she was a male but my guide was sure she wasn't. 

Some Unique Stories:
1. The female at Corbett Mueseum: There is a female there. I don't know to what level the skin is streched but according to the people there it isn't. The female is almost as big as Matkasur. The tigress is from 1978. She died in a fight with an adult male elephant. And yes she also managed to kill the elephant. The fight went on for 3 days before both of them died because of their injuries. 

2. White Tiger in Corbett: I have heard of presence of white tigers in the Ranikhet side of Corbett from a lot of people including locals and some local officials. But to this day haven't seen any evidence.

3. Killing of adult elephants is common in Terai. I myself have seen many carcass. 

4. Stories of giants and others stories I know a lot. But this post was about all the legit sightings I have had during my lifetime and so I hope the summary will help you in someway and you do find it worth a read.

I have been traveling out of India for quite a while. But I am returning by the end of this year. Next year I am planning to spend lots of time in Dudhwa and Bandipur.

I don't have much evidence for the point I put forward on the forum but I definitely have good experience of seeing tens of tigers from very close spaces and I sure know what I am talking about. Reply