ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris)

[Genghis]

(07-21-2018, 11:14 AM)peter Wrote: GENGHIS

Welcome to the forum. I thought that Troinin's story on the wild boar and the tiger was posted some time ago, but I could be wrong. Interesting info anyhow. 

I assume you visit the site of the AMUR TIGER PROGRAM every now and then. Young Amur tigers released from the rehab center do very well. Not seldom, they hunt wild boars, including adult males. Remarkable, as they often outweigh immature tigers.

This is the skull of a male wild boar killed by a male tiger suffering from a deadly disease. The tiger died not long after the fight as a result of the disease:

*This image is copyright of its original author

These boars were shot in the northern part of Korea a century ago. They averaged about 420 pounds:

*This image is copyright of its original author

The kills of the rehab tigers attracted bears. A young tigress avoided them, but the male known as 'Putin's Tiger' twice killed a young bear (2-3 years of age). At least one of them was a brown bear.

WARSAW

I recently noticed you, quite surprisingly, got involved in a new discussion on bears and tigers in the Russian Far East. John Vaillant's book on the Sobolonye man-eater ('The Tiger') featured in a number of posts. Part of the discussion was about his remarks on tigers and bears. Some posters used them to underline a statement, whereas others had quite a few doubts. I thought you decided for the doubt department.

As to the arguments you presented. Some years ago, you said Vaillant is not a biologist. True. He also came up empty in the personal experience department, you said. Also true. No comparison to those in the know, like Russian biologists who saw things others will never see. True again. But he knew about the tiger and visited the region. This means he was informed and prepared to invest time.

Vaillant is a professional. Professional writers know about books and money. This most probably means that Vaillant knew the story, if there was one, wouldn't sell. I mean, how many over here would be interested in a book about a tiger killing a human somewhere in Russia? In spite of that, he wrote the book. Although it was appreciated, the book didn't sell. It's offered in many shops.  

I'm not saying that Vaillant compares to Dostojevski, but the book proves he's operating in the Premier League. A reputation is a result of time, drive, tenacity and accuracy. One mistake is curtains.

Vaillant did a lot of research on the history of the Russian Far East. The other books he published suggest he also knows about the natural world. Although not a specialist on tigers and bears, he knew about the Siberian Tiger Project. He talked to biologists, hunters and locals. When done, he visited biologists able to get to an educated opinion on what he found. Educated underlined. 

I contacted a biologist working in the Russian Far East. A modest and respected man, who has first hand experience and published about tigers and bears. He said the book was great. I contacted others I consider in the know. Same result.

As to tigers and bears in the RFE. In the last decade, new articles were published. Although they contradict each other in some respects, a few things stand out. One is that (brown) bears are an important food source for tigers. Two is that adult bears are included. Three is that tigers don't hunt bears in winter, but when they're available (spring, summer and autumn). Four is that biologists had to adapt their opinion on tigers hunting bears (too dangerous).   

The details needed to get to a conclusion on interactions between males of both species are lacking, but judging from the number of adult tigers killed in clashes it's very likely they meet quite often. According to Kretchmar, bears do not dominate tigers or the other way round. As male brown have about 160 pounds on male tigers (averages), one could conclude they need a size advantage to keep the balance. Apart from a few large bears, just about anything is possible with tigers and bears, Kerley said. Not that different from what Vaillant wrote.  

As to your 'humble opinion' on two posters mentioned more than once during the discussion on tigers and bears: it's a public secret that it's largely based on factors not directly related to quality or meaning (preference and animosity). As the other poster added significant quantities of insult, I propose to leave yours truly out of equasions in the future.

The internet is a great invention in that it allows for an almost unrestricted exchange of information between people all over the world. If we try to keep 'opinions' and all the rest out of it, it should benefit all of us in the long run. Also remember that forums about the natural world are about just that, not something else.

Thanks for the info on the Sungari river tiger.

Yes Peter, I do visit the site 'Amur tiger program'...and like you i'm also fascinated by the relationship between tigers and brown bears. And I've also got some data from scientific literature on tiger and brown bear, face-to-face confrontations, which actually shows that tigers dominate brown bears even in direct confrontations. I can post it, if you want?

And I've already seen that skull of the large male boar that was killed by the tiger, that died of a terrible disease. Judging by the size of the boars skull, how large or heavy do you think a boar like that would be?? Reply