Lions of Sabi Sands

[FACR2212]

(6 hours ago)Rui Ferreira Wrote:

(7 hours ago)FACR2212 Wrote:

(7 hours ago)Rui Ferreira Wrote: Greetings everyone, all the talk in the Timbavati and Manyeleti thread about the prides and their origins, it left me wondering wich are the oldest prides in sabi sands 
I know that prides like Styx and Ottawas, Ximungue and Tsalala are quite old already
Middle term we got Manghenis and Nkuhumas 
A bit younger there is the Talamati pride
Most recently we got Kambulas, Ntsevus and Msultu
We lost some over the years like the Sparta, Charleston and Castleton ( I wanted to know more about this pride in particular, they seem to have a story with the Ximungue) wich were really old too
There are some prides that I just get pieces of information here and there and try to puzzle all up together like the 4ways and Southern pride

Ximhungwe and Castleton are the same pride:
https://rtrwildlifevideos.blogspot.com/2...lions.html
In 2004 the 6 females of the Castleton pride were taken over by the Sand River Male aka Dzunani and soon were producing cubs all over the place. Due to the fact that the pride seldom crossed onto Castleton property anymore it was decided to rename them after the large open area that they were now spending most of their time - Ximhungwe clearings.

Tsalala was a Ximhungwe/Castleton breakaway of two Tsalala original females in the 90's decade (one of them was the mother of BB or Tailless Tsalala).

Southern pride is rather an old pride, because Rollercoaster malles were territorial over southern pride around 2002-2003 (they sired the 2 Golfcourse males, that in turn sired the 5 Selati males).

Firstly Thank you very much for your knowledge, I think you´ve been following these lions less time than I am and it´s amazing all the knowledge you have over them, it really seems the other way around
I am fascinated ( not sure if it´s the right word but oh well...) by the way you study the dynamics and history of these beatiful creatures
About the topic: Yeah I tought just that, but still had the doubt if it Xim were a breakaway from Castleton that went extinct, now I know that it isn´t the case 
I wished to use the name Castleton more because it hits a nerve every time I mistype Ximhungwe, but for the sake of people not getting confused I will forever call it " Ximungwe"
It´s not like there was a breakway of some sort it just happend for them to shift territories, not like the other breakaways that we can´t have two prides with the same name like what happend to the Nkuhumas, Talamaties Kambulas and so on
I knew the Tsalalas were a breakaway from the Xim pride, but they themselfs are quite old already too
What I don´t know is if it´s there a correlation between Xim and Ottawas, that would be cool to know given that the Xim pride is divided in half by the two prides
Weren´t the southern pride the ones who got poached quite badly in the past and made a recovery or am I just confusing things ?
Thanks again for you reply

You are welcome! I must admit I got a little obssesed... lol

Maybe you are confusing southern pride with sand river pride? Sand River pride was composed of two females and five male subadults (Mapogo's sons). As many know, they were sadly killed after the fence was broken by a storm (or something like that), only one subadult returned to Sabi Sands but could not make it. One of the most unfortunates histories...

Edit: By the way, it's not the current sand river pride in southern sabi sands nowadays. Reply