Plains Camp Males

[KM600]

(Yesterday, 02:21 AM)Mapokser Wrote: Something already discussed here on WF a few times, that I find interesting is what cubs means to male lions.

These recent PCM visits to the Tsalala pride reminded me of those discussions.

Like, what the Tsalala pride has to offer to the PCM? The female can't mate and isn't like they are visiting in hopes for easy meals, otherwise they'd visit the Manghenis instead as 3 females can bring bigger prey down, however they avoid them just like they avoid their other older cubs, the NK Breakaways.

We have also never seen them with Tsalala before, the mating period aside, they never showed up when she was pregnant or denning ( for all we know ).

But now they're showing up consistently ( at least for now ), could it be because of cubs? Could male lions to some degree have some instinct to go pay a visit to see if his small cubs are fine?

Of course every lion has its own personality, some more affectionate towards cubs, others not so much, and so on.

We know lions take over territories and prides mainly to have a space that belongs to them where they can hunt and control, as well as have females within the territory to mate and get free food. They enjoy their coalition partners company the most and mostly only seek females for food and mating, unless they are a solo male where the company of females is all they can get.

However for males like the PCM, there's no benefit in visiting the Tsalalas, there's nothing there for them beside, maybe, going to check on the cubs.

Obviously male lions abandon cubs and barely have any nurturing instincts towards cubs, but these cubs have to mean something to them, but to what degree?

They obviously know that killing cubs make the females go into estrus, but when they believe the cubs belong to them, they don't kill them. I remember a video of the S.Avocas trying to push a small cub off a kill but they were struggling hard because they weren't able to easily intimidate and chase the cub off, and since it looked like their instinct didn't allow them to attack the cub, they almost failed at pushing the cub away.

When you think about it, not hurting the cub seemed like an important thing for the S.Avoca male.

Obviously, these animals wouldn't be here today if their own fathers killed them, even solitary cats like leopards and tigers have documented interactions between male and cubs, and being social cats, it's natural that lions would have stronger bonds with cubs.

I wonder if to some degree the males can "understand" that the cubs are their "legacy". I remember Doctor Craig Packer speculating that some male lions may act "suicidal", charging at 3 other males alone for example, because they have an urge to pass on their genes and their time to do it is very limited so they may not want to get ousted in their prime no matter what.

Of course, such instances are rare and I'm skeptical if the existance of cubs makes males any more willing to defend a territory, but it's a possibility. For example I don't think the Mlowathi Mapogo fought so hard against the Majingilane in any way because they had cubs, I think they just didn't want to give away their territory and mating opportunities. But at the same time, would it be possible, maybe, for the likes of S.BDM to have put some more effort if they had a more established relationship with the Nkuhumas and a lot of cubs?

Another interesting thing is the ousting of subadult males, the male wants them out, but only chases them off, they don't seriously attack or try to kill them, why? I mean, again, if that wasn't the case, they'd go extinct, but that means that even the subadult son means something for the fathers, they don't want their sons in their territory, but won't threaten their lives, if an unrelated subadult shows up they'll kill him, but if their sons shows up, they'll only chase them off, and sometimes even tolerate them post-ousting, here and there, as we've seen many times, which makes me wonder how male lions sees their cubs, what the cubs means to them, their importance and so on.

I think every male has a different type of bond with their offspring and cubs in general, whether that's brothers / sisters / cousins from their natal pride or unrelated cubs they come across. There is definitely something in the back of their minds which tells them to create a legacy for themselves and in some ways care for their eventual cubs instead of killing them but whether this is basic instinct along with something else, we can't say for sure. We do however know their minds either aren't developed enough or care for cubs they don't believe they sired, and will in most cases kill them, even if it's offspring of their own brother. 

In terms of the actual bond that goes into a father and his cubs, I don't think it's completely dependant on the father. For example with many of us, there will be one person u just never completely bonded with, in my case with certain family members, and because of that u were never willing to try and develop that relationship. It's not like cubs / subadults are forced to spend time with their fathers when they're around, they do it because of that bond between the two, same way we've seen males who don't care for their cubs in the slightest, the best thing they've done for them is allow them to stay alive. 

I remember a story about Makhulu I seen while researching about the Mapogos which has stuck with me til this day, u also shared it in the Mapogo thread. The story about Mapogo and the remaining Sand River Pride cub. For those of u not aware of this story, brief summary, this was the only surviving cub of that pride after the rest of the pride were shot. He was following other prides that were also controlled by his fathers, and at one point was caught by a whole pride, Makhulu come out of nowhere to defend him and then let him feed on two separate meals over two different days after chasing his own pride off their own kill. The cub died as he was never accepted by the pride, as Makhulu later went elsewhere in his territory prolly patrolling, leaving the cub to succumb to starvation. That's my favourite lion story to this day, despite the obvious tragedy. Makhulu had no reason to help the male in so many ways but done it because it was instinctual to him atleast, and showed what a great, caring father he always was. 

Despite how much of a great father he was, both him and PB left their territory when Selatis finally become serious for a complete takeover, leaving cubs to die. U can obviously make the point PB was in bad health and Mr T was already separated and eventually caught so there wasn't much Makhulu could do, even being old himself, but this in my opinion, this proves these lions don't act 'suicidal.' We don't know if any thinking goes into these decisions, but if it did I'm sure it would be something of an understanding that they can't do any more, they could die protecting their prides but the intruders will eventually catch up with them anyways. 

It's like with Othawa Male, do I believe he was really suicidal, no, but his actions to us make it seem that way. I believe he genuinely thought that he could manage himself against the BBoys, whether it be taking territory off them or claiming their females. 

One of the best relationships I've personally seen between offspring and their sire, was both Talamati brothers and Dark Mane, especially Dzwihala. He was often seen patrolling with Dark Mane and u could even say both brothers helped Dark Mane live for as long as he did, helping him both in supplying food and even backing him against S8 at young ages. They had no reason to do this, if we were all being honest, Dark Mane didn't have any upside to these boys, they just stayed with him because of that close bond they had since being born. Real loyalty.

As I've said before with PCMs, Tsalala Pride territory is great in order to keep contact with the males. It's an area that PCMs cross when going back and forth between Ximhungwes and Nkuhumas, now am I sure PCMs would stay checking up on them if they were further South like Mhangenis or Othawas, I'm not so sure. It's actually one thing that will be most interesting if Othawas conceive to PCMs. I'm also interested in how much PCMs help with the hunting in any pride they're with, we know they are certainly successful hunters otherwise they wouldn't have made it through their nomadic stage, but do they actually sacrifice for their females and cubs. I was thinking this as I seen a photo of Tsalala lioness trying to bring down a buffalo yesterday with neither PCM in sight, but still in the area, I believe watching the cubs. Reply