Plains Camp Males

[Rui Ferreira]

(10-17-2024, 02:21 AM)Mapokser Wrote: Something already discussed here on WF a few times, that I find interesting is what cubs means to male lions.

These recent PCM visits to the Tsalala pride reminded me of those discussions.

Like, what the Tsalala pride has to offer to the PCM? The female can't mate and isn't like they are visiting in hopes for easy meals, otherwise they'd visit the Manghenis instead as 3 females can bring bigger prey down, however they avoid them just like they avoid their other older cubs, the NK Breakaways.

We have also never seen them with Tsalala before, the mating period aside, they never showed up when she was pregnant or denning ( for all we know ).

But now they're showing up consistently ( at least for now ), could it be because of cubs? Could male lions to some degree have some instinct to go pay a visit to see if his small cubs are fine?

Of course every lion has its own personality, some more affectionate towards cubs, others not so much, and so on.

We know lions take over territories and prides mainly to have a space that belongs to them where they can hunt and control, as well as have females within the territory to mate and get free food. They enjoy their coalition partners company the most and mostly only seek females for food and mating, unless they are a solo male where the company of females is all they can get.

However for males like the PCM, there's no benefit in visiting the Tsalalas, there's nothing there for them beside, maybe, going to check on the cubs.

Obviously male lions abandon cubs and barely have any nurturing instincts towards cubs, but these cubs have to mean something to them, but to what degree?

They obviously know that killing cubs make the females go into estrus, but when they believe the cubs belong to them, they don't kill them. I remember a video of the S.Avocas trying to push a small cub off a kill but they were struggling hard because they weren't able to easily intimidate and chase the cub off, and since it looked like their instinct didn't allow them to attack the cub, they almost failed at pushing the cub away.

When you think about it, not hurting the cub seemed like an important thing for the S.Avoca male.

Obviously, these animals wouldn't be hear today if their own fathers killed them, even solitary cats like leopards and tigers have documented interactions between male and cubs, and being social cats, it's natural that lions would have stronger bonds with cubs.

I wonder if to some degree the males can "understand" that the cubs are their "legacy". I remember Doctor Craig Packer speculating that some male lions may act "suicidal", charging at 3 other males alone for example, because they have an urge to pass on their genes and their time to do it is very limited so they may not want to get ousted in their prime no matter what.

Or course, such instances are rare and I'm skeptical if the existance of cubs makes males any more willing to defend a territory, but it's a possibility. For example I don't think the Mlowathi Mapogo fought so hard against the Majingilane in any part because they had cubs, I think they just didn't want to give away their territory and mating opportunities. But at the same time, would it be possible, maybe, for the likes of S.BDM to have put some more effort if they had a more established relationship with the Nkuhumas and a lot of cubs?

Another interesting thing is the ousting of subadult males, the male wants them out, but only chases them off, they don't seriously attack or try to kill them, why? I mean, again, if that wasn't the case, they'd go extinct, but that means that even the subadult son means something for the fathers, they don't want their sons in their territory, but won't threaten their lives, it an unrelated subadult shows up they'll kill him, but if their sons shows up, they'll only chase them off, and sometimes even tolerate them post-ousting, here and there, as we've seen many times, which makes me wonder how male lions sees their cubs, what the cubs means to them, their importance and so on.

First of all, thank you for this beatiful text, Im surely going back to read again this in the future
If I had to give my opinion I´d say in the end everything comes down to individual personality 
For example lets say PCM like a more chill environment where they can rest from time to time, might aswell while doing that make sure their young offspring is safe ( a pride with 2/3 cubs like we see with Tsalala and Xim pride is the best of both worlds),  but if we look at the Manghenis maybe 10 cubs jumping all around is just not what PCM prefer 


Another factor might be just as simple as " I like these lionesses over the others" 
For example:
PCM first cubs with Mangheni came like what? an year later of them controling the pride ( might need to get fact checked on this one but I believe it was a long time IIRC), but if we look at their relationship with Tsalala, she got pregnant almost immediately, can that idicate that they prefer Tsalala and Nkuhumas/Ximunghue etc.. over the Mangheni lionesses? Maybe, could be the other way around? Maybe, the thing is lions have preferences
While you see Makunga regulary checking Tsalala, mating with Ottawas etc in the west, his brother was always more fixated with Nkuhuma Pride, winning mating rights, appearing alone in the north etc...
Another example of preferences might be shown by who the lions like to hang out with, some lions like to hang out with little cubs when they are in the pride, others take the male sub adults for a trip

About them not killing their own offspring ( most of the times), every living being as an instinct to generate new living being out of their genes, ( atleast has the instinct to mate) 
The reason of being alive is to spread your genes ( atleast thats what my biology teacher always said) so theres a natural instinct to not kill for example the male subs when its time to leave
For the dominant males would make more sense for the boys to hang around there and help the pride with hunting and helping protecting the territory
but it just makes sense to make them move far far away and with some luck continue to spread your genes far away from the natal pride where you dont need that due to already having your genes there
Even for the sub adult males, something tells them to leave the pride, that theres more benefit in moving away and find unrelated females to mate
for example why would Khanya leave his sisters? It would make sense for him a male, to stay with 4 young females
for example why do females who come into extrus prefer to find another males than their own father if their still dominant of the pride?
Everything in my opinion is a mix of personality with instincts wich is very hard to explain Reply