ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris)

[peter]

APEX

You know there are a few forums about the natural world. Each forum is different. Some were created to present and discuss information about one species in particular, whereas others have a different aim. 

The aim of Wildfact is to collect reliable information about those making their home in the natural world. Although the owners want to offer information about many species, most members are interested in big cats. The lion section is large and interesting. Most unfortunately, only few members are interested in jaguars and leopards. The tiger section is a bit larger, but not by much. Every now and then, a (new) members posts about other species. 

In spite of our limited reach in this respect (referring to the number of species discussed), Wildfact had well over 100 million views in about 10 years. There are different reasons, but those who know a bit more told us visitors often read more than one page and, furthermore, often return for more. A result of the quality of the information offered, or a result of the policy to apply the rules in a strict way? We're not sure, but we do know our mods take their job serious.     

Returning to the aim of this post. 

Two of the most active members in the tiger section are interested in interactions between Amur tigers, Himalayan black bears and Ussuri brown bears in the Russian Far East. Their aim is to find and discuss reliable information, meaning information collected by those who know a few things about wild Amur tigers (referring to naturalists, villagers, hunters, hunter-biologists, zoologists and biologists). It resulted in a lengthy, but well visited, thread. 

Those visiting different animal forums know they're not the only ones interested in tigers and bears. All in all, one could say opinions about the way tigers and bears interact in the Russian Far East in particular differ quite a bit and be close. There are different reasons. We could discuss them, but we could also decide to focus on good information only. Our proposal is to do exactly that. The main reason is this method is the most productive. Experience says discussions only very seldom produce something of interest. The most common product is animosity of some kind. The latest exchange is just another example.  

After your last post, to be more concrete, I visited the home of those you addressed. In the eyes of the administrator of the site and some members, the male brown bear killed in November 2022 by male tiger 'Odyr' was a 3-year old male. And that's final. You could try to convince them, but you know they're not to be convinced. You also know you're not a missionary. Your aim is to find and discuss good information. Meaning it ends here.

Does this post mean your last posts were not appreciated? Far from it. They were informative, interesting and well above par in all respects. Our proposal is to continue in this department. 

THE EFFECTS OF BIRD FLU ON CAPTIVE LIONS AND TIGERS

The Netherlands, as you may know, has quite a few firms breeding domestic animals for consumption. A few years ago, the bird flu, again, struck. I more or less followed the proceedings. The conclusion for now is it's here to stay. This means the virus most probably is adapting all the time. 

Can other species be infected? The answer is affirmative. Captive big cats are an example, but they're not the only ones.   

Here's a short report I found on the site of the NOS (Dutch National Broadcasting Company). It's in Dutch, so you have to use the translator. The report says 3 lions and almost 50 tigers (!) affected by the bird flu in August and September this year died in (two?) zoos in Ho-Chi-Minh-City (the former Hanoi) in Vietnam:

https://nos.nl/artikel/2539554-tientalle...vogelgriep

THE FEDERAL STATE BUDGETARY INSTITUTION 'RESERVED PRIAMURYE' - NEWS ARCHIVE

A year ago or thereabout, there was a discussion about the size of the tigers in the Khabarovsky Krai. As a result of a lack of reliable information, those involved in the discussion had no option but to use indirect information (referring to descriptions of biologists and information about the 'heel width' collected by A. Gotvansky in the Bolshekthekhtsirsky Reserve and the Anyuisky National Park). The discussion, as usual, produced a lot of animosity.   

During the discussion, I wrote I found information about the 'heel width' of a number of large male tigers in a few reports found in the 'News Archive' of the Federal State Institution 'Reserved Priamurye'. I added I printed them, but was unable to scan them. Most of those involved in the discussion didn't believe one word of it, the discussion collapsed and two of those participating (PC and Guate) left, never to return. 

A few weeks ago, a neighbour with skills in the department of scans came over to sort it out. The result was most reports were scanned. One problem is they're in Dutch, meaning you have to use the translator. Another problem is not all sentences survived the scan. If a scan was affected, I'll inform you in the liner notes. 

When I'm done scanning (in 1-2 weeks from now), I'll post them in a new series. 

VIDEOS

My guess is the discussion about (interactions and fights between) tigers and bears (in the Russian Far East) will never be concluded. The main reason is naturalists, hunters and biologists contradict each other at times. Another is the difference of opinion beween the general public and those who know a few things about the effects of specialisation.  

About a year ago, I visited a new facility not too far from Amsterdam. It had three brown bears, and adult male and two adult females. I thought the male was from Russia, but I'm not sure. I'm sure about his size though (I made a few notes). He was tall (close to 4 feet at the shoulders while standing), big (judging from the sedated male I saw from a few feet in another facility at least 350 kg or 773 pounds) and in excellent shape. He was a giant. The females were not small either. The facility also had a number of Amur tigers. We only saw one, an adult female. She was unusually tall and long and in very good shape. Staff members told me the male was one of the largest they had seen, but he was sleeping. These two, by the way, were sent to a facility in Kazakhstan a week ago. Kazakhstan, as you may know, intents to reintroduce tigers and, for this reason, created a new reserve. The two tigers from the facility I visited (see above) are part of the project. Captive Amur tigers in good condition will be used for the project as well. The intention is to release their offspring into the new reserve. 

While watching both (referring to the bears and the tigress), I heard the conversations around me. Not one of those watching thought the tiger (tigress in this case) wouldn't stand a chance against the giant male bear. When discussing tigers and bears with friends, the conclusion was similar. Based on what I heard, I'd say at least 90% of the public favours an adult male brown bear over any adult male Amur tiger. The reason is captive brown bears often are large and big.  

Like those who joined the Domain, Apex, most people just can't imagine a tiger would be able to kill an adult male brown bear in an open fight. You can post what you want, but my guess is their opinion will never change. The main reason is size and robustness. 

The facility I visited in the late nineties and the first decade of this century wasn't open for the public. Those following workshops were professionals (army, police and security), athletes (judo, weight lifting, body building and martial arts) and trainers. Compared to the general public, they had a different opinion. The reason was they knew about (the effects of) specialisation (and training). The male brown bear in that facility was as large as the one we saw in the new facility, whereas the male lions and tigers ranged between 170-210 kg.  

Anyhow. The aim is to post a few videos in order to show you the difference between an adult wild male Ussuri brown bear and an adult wild male Amur tiger. Remember individual variation in both species is pronounced. Adult male Ussuri brown bears average 275 kg (range 180-450, at times over 500), whereas adult male Amur tigers average 170-210 kg (range 140-270, possibly up to 300).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFS9KQS9VLI (BiL, Jewish Autonomous Oblast) - Male Amur tiger 'Grom' and a large male Ussuri brown bear
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDYmaczatqs (BiL, 01:05) - Male Amur tiger, male Ussuri brown bear and two hikers compared
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mY_xRfJvWdM (Tigersforever10, 00:43) - Male Amur tiger and male Ussuri brown bear compared
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnCopqsUZOg (BiL, 03:52) - Amur tiger 'Jack' (beat 'Ochkarik' and lost to 'Martyn') and a male Ussuri brown bear
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bn3IRjeYsQ4 (Tigersforever10, 00:19) - Male Amur tiger 'Martyn' 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gXej7arxRs (BiL, 00:17) - Amur tiger 'Ochkarik' (160-180 kg according to Batalov) compared to two hikers
https://www.hab.kp.ru/daily/27391/4585639/ - Article (Alexander Batalov) about 'Ochkarik', 'Jack' and 'Martyn' 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NxhjxLAOv4 (Tigersforever10, 00:19) - Very large male Ussuri brown bear
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpczjqQNVXE (Tigersforever10, 01:53) - Tigers and a big male Ussuri brown bear in the Jewish Autonomous Oblast
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBSaLJUUxeo (BiL, 01:52) - Male Ussuri brown bears and male Amur tigers compared
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hs1Vmt8qtsQ (BiL, 00:33) - Male Amur tiger, Himalayan black bear and a very large male Ussuri brown bear
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqSvqePgIHg (Tigersforever, 01:23) - A few large male Amur tigers

In most videos, the male brown bears are heavier and (a bit) taller. They also have slightly longer heads and skulls. Male Amur tigers, on the other hand, seem a bit longer (referring to head and body length measured in a straight line). Very large Ussuri brown bears can be 2-3 times the weight of an average male Amur tiger. Russian biologists know, but think they don't stand much of a chance in a fight with an adult male Amur tiger. In a video that was posted in this thread, Sergej Aramilev explaines why they got to that conclusion. Reply