Polar Bears - Data, Pictures and Videos

[GreenGrolar]

(10-16-2023, 07:13 PM)peter Wrote:

(10-16-2023, 09:03 AM)GreenGrolar Wrote: b - The height of the polar bear

In my previous post, I said large male polar and brown bears can reach a height of 9 feet when standing on their hind legs. I added a photograph of Ursula Böttcher and polar bear 'Alaska' taken in 1984. You said the photograph is deceptive, because Ursula was 5.1 only. Also meaning 'Alaska' wasn't 9 feet. Finally meaning I was wrong. 

Let's assume Ursula, as you said, was 5.1. When she performed, however, she always wore boots. The heels (referring to the photograph I posted) could have been about 2 inches. Meaning she was about 5.3. Let's assume for now she was 160 cm. 

I had a closer look at the photograph you posted and used a ruler to get to a guesstimate. Ursula has a height of 90 units. Let's say 1 unit equals x. If Ursula, wearing her boots, was 160 cm, it means x (160:90) is 1,777. Polar bear 'Alaska' has a height of (just over) 153 units. This means he was (153 x 1,777) 271,88 cm on his hind legs, perhaps a bit more. One feet = 12 inches (30,48 cm) and nine feet = 108 inches (274,32 cm). Alaska was 271,88 cm (a bit over 8.11). The difference between 274,32 and 271,88 = 2,44 cm (almost 1 inch). Meaning I was just about right. 

Ursula, as you said, was a brave woman. All of those prepared to enter the ring with a full-grown predator have a lot of confidence. I interviewed quite a few trainers and read a number of books in which trainers feature. Most big cat trainers worked with bears before they started with cats. They agreed adult male polars bears can be very dangerous. If an adult male likes you, however, he is a true friend prepared to defend you no matter what. I posted a true story and heard of more stories I consider reliable. Brown bears, on the other hand, are different. Adult males in particular can be moody and unpredictable. 

https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-on-the-edge-of-extinction-a-the-tiger-panthera-tigris?pid=196336#pid196336

Hi @peter, sorry for quoting your post here as I am unable to post in Edge of extinction. Good insightful post and thanks for bringing out the name of the polar bear next to Ursula. Regarding the sentence which I underlined; it seems info in the source below will disagree with this:

*This image is copyright of its original author

It seems the polar bear is the most unpredictable of all bears. If you can show me a counter source, I would happily read it. Thanks :).

If you're interested in trainers, try to find 'Die hohe Schule der Raubtierdressur' (Hans-Jürgen and Rosemarie Tiede, Germany, 1997, 448 pp). It's in German. In their very informative book, the Tiedes discuss no less than 58 trainers. Some of them worked with both bears and big cats. Hans-Jürgen, by the way, was a trainer himself. 

Those who worked with them agree polar bears, true carnivores and larger than brown and black bears, are dangerous. One of the trainers interviewed said they most probably killed more trainers than all others predators combined. Some adult males, however, were on very good terms with their trainer. Iwan Dimitri had the largest group ever (22 polar bears). He said male 'Kenny' (285 cm on his hindlegs and over 500 kg) was his best friend. He saved his life when Dimitri was attacked by an even larger male.  

Most trainers said large carnivores are not that different from humans. They like good relations, good food, routines and nice clothes, but also know about competition, preference and outright jaleousy. And when they feel threatened, they're as dangerous as anyone.  

Nice clothes? No doubt about that one. Read the chapter about Eugen and Barbara Poludniak. Seems to be quite typical in bears. Same for jaleousy. The Poludniaks knew all there is to know about bears, and polar bears in particular. They were very dangerous, but 'Royal', the boss of the group, liked Eugen. When he suffered from tooth problems, he threw him all over the place to show his anger. But he never hurt him. They were the best of friends.   

When reading the book, I noticed some trainers went from one mauling to another, whereas others never experienced any problems. A result of the animals or the trainer? After a polar bear had killed a trainer, a young man without much experience took over. Fredy Gafner was the ultimate stand-in and never experienced problems. He thought polar and brown bears are very similar. Both are playful when young, both like to embrace their opponent whenever possible and both become more moody when they get older. The polar bear is more dangerous, not only because of his size, but also because he's a true carnivore and much more sensible. 

Fredy took over the mixed bear act from Erich 'Klant' Hagenbeck, when Hagenbeck died in a hospital in the Netherlands at age 77 in January 1990. I wrote 'Klant' a letter in 1989. He responded (I still have the letter) and called me to get together. We set a date, but the 'Grim Reaper' was also interested. A great pity, as 'Klant' was a nice man loaded with knowledge about captive and wild big cats and bears. Wild? Yes. In his day, trainers at times bought wild animals. Most were quite young, but Klant said adults were bought as well. It took most of them quite a bit of time to settle in, but they were more reliable than big cats born and bred in captivity. That is to say, those who adapted to captivity. Some never did, but some of their captive relatives were no different. Most trainers I interviewed had a lion or, more often, a tiger not interested in work. The jaguar trainer I contacted cancelled the interview when I arrived, because he was exhausted. I saw why. The big black jaguar told him in no uncertain way a deal was out of the question. He was experienced (lions and tigers), but wasn't able to get along with jaguars. A species-related problem? I don't think so. Some trainers are not wanted and they're told before work starts. Most accept the verdict. 

Tony Hughes knew all about big cats, trainers and problems. When I met him, he was assisting a woman working with lions. She wasn't interested in an interview. Same reason as the jaguar trainer? Could be. The male lions didn't like her one bit and Tony was hired to prevent problems. Reputation. Some years earlier, he entered the cage when one of the Chipperfields was mauled by a lion. He no doubt saved his life and was noticed. The interview with Tony was one of the most interesting. He too didn't distinguish between species and gender. Tony distinguished between individuals. Characters. In his experience, just about anything was possible.                  

The Tiedes, by the way, are very different from your average poster. Like Tony, they talk straight and don't distinguish between big and small, young and old and cat or bear. Every trainer is an individual. Same for the animals they work with. All trainers I interviewed confirmed there's no such thing as a species-related treat. At least, not in the departments of interaction and behaviour. Same for fights and the outcome of serious encounters. If anything, they thought smaller big cats were much underestimated. By the general public, not trainers. Trainers know male jaguars are very powerful and leopards are as dangerous as their larger relatives, if not more so. Cougars are different from jaguars and leopards, but trainers prefer the smaller subspecies. There's a reason, of course. You just never know in big cats and bears.

*This image is copyright of its original author

"When accidents happen, when strange animals are placed together and a fight starts, always try to protect the weaker animal, regardless of his species. You will hear it said that a tiger can kill a lion, or vice versa. In my experience i have seen all theories exploded. Tigers have killed lions, lions have killed polar bears, a small leopard has killed a large tiger. usually a polar bear can kill any of the big cats, but i have seen a lion kill a polar bear", Louis Roth, forty years with jungle killers, page 204-205.

Some trainers seem to believe that lions are superior to tigers. I believe both cats are about equal with both the Bengal tiger and Siberian tiger being larger and stronger. Lions do corporate better in gangs and seem to defend their territory a bit more. There seems to be just as much accounts of lions killing tigers as much as there are accounts of tigers killing lions.

I am interested in what you think about this trainer and book, Peter as I believe you said in the Edge of Extinction that some trainers can generalize.

Note: I am not trying to turn this section into a tiger vs lion debate since it is to mainly post info on polar bears. Only posted this account here as it mentions polar bears, captive ones. Reply