Lions of Sabi Sands

[Rabubi]

(05-25-2024, 02:21 AM)NLAL11 Wrote:

(05-24-2024, 10:42 PM)Rabubi Wrote:

(05-24-2024, 07:51 PM)NLAL11 Wrote:

(05-24-2024, 07:05 PM)BA0701 Wrote:

(05-24-2024, 01:20 PM)NLAL11 Wrote:

(05-24-2024, 04:59 AM)KM600 Wrote:

(05-24-2024, 01:31 AM)T_Ferguson Wrote: There simply has to be a showdown soon doesn't there?  The Nkhuma's are the only mating eligible pride at the moment, and you have Skorro and NK messing around in the West, Khanya and the Kambula's messing around in the north (I am very curious still what happens when sister draws Estrus), and the PCM's trying to live in all the worlds.  Sooner or later someone has to get caught right?  The shame of it is, the Nkhuma's will catch the worst of this most likely.

I am also worried about what this means for the Othawa's and Ridge's subs.

Technically PCMs possibly abandoning part of the West is good for the Othawas as it’s likely Skorro and Nkuhuma could settle down - neither should be a threat to the lionesses if they pursue this current coalition. Obviously wouldn’t be ideal when they come into estrus and have a need to mate. As for Nkuhuma breakaways, they are in a very tough situation that I don’t think gets affected by any of the male lion dynamics in the area. Would love to see the female join the Othawas and the male go searching for his own partners too but as of right now them being alive and in good condition, especially given their age and their nomadic status, that’s enough. 

The Kambula lioness has already been in estrus and it’s clear the males would willingly mate with her, she’s the one holding back. As for there being a showdown, I agree, someone coalition / male lion is gonna take a heavy beating at some point being in close proximity to so many others. I actually have a feeling BDMs might go back into Manyeleti as we on this topic.

I have to disagree with Skorro Jr and Nkuhuma being better for the Othawas. The girls won't mate with their father, it's one of the built-in/innate preventers of inbreeding. And they are certainly more of a danger to the Nkuhuma breakaways. The NB girl won't work with the Othawas, because even if she joined them, they'll come into eustrus way sooner than she will, and she'll just get chased off again, or killed.

Loonkito was rumored to have bred with his granddaughters, who he himself had helped create. For sure it is known that he bred with his daughters, as when they became pregnant he had been the only male over the pride for quite an extended time.

Males have been observed, countless times, mock mounting other males, in what we're told is bonding or an attempt to secure dominance. Would they not do that to females as well?

Talk about keeping it in the family. Jesus. So it can happen then.

Just searched for Loonkito, the Africa's oldest lion, who was speared to death by villagers in Kenya. What a sad end for a very old lion. Those villagers can go to hell.

I was with you up until the last part about the villagers going to hell. 

The internet community is extremely quick to paint local communities in a bad light from the comfort of their homes but can not be bothered to consider the consequences of co-existing with dangerous wildlife on a day to day basis. Furthermore, with increasing urbanization and poverty on the continent, it's not like everyone can simply pack up and leave the wilderness. So, the next best thing is to continue with what has been putting food on the table for generations-farming- simply because there is no other viable alternative for them.

I love wildlife as much as the next person and human interference is something to be reduced as far as possible, but that doesn't mean we must demonize local communities for protecting their only livelihood by any means necessary. Especially in the context of East Africa where protected areas are working with local communities to mitigate human-wildlife conflict and so a lot of these killings often happen as a last resort.

All that anger is better reserved for rich trophy hunters who kill for pleasure.

You make very valid points, and yes I was quick to anger, having freshly watched that scene. Especially here in the UK, we have very little (and generally quite small) wildlife, and practically zero dangerous wildlife. We have one species of mildly venomous snake, and some pretty grumpy badgers. So I can't possibly know what it's like for these villagers, and thank you for calling me out. I will say one thing, which is that I've seen videos of tigers or leopards in India being in a village or trapped in a well, and the locals dealing with it without harming the animal. So there are other ways. Of course India isn't perfect. I'm sure most people here are familiar with the elephant seeking such revenge that it killed a woman and then turned up at her funeral to trample the corpse.

I know that one of the ways in which the wildlife/conservation organisations help the locals living near lions and other predators  is by working with them to establish other means of income, so that the loss of the livestock isn't such a hit. Of course any government that is serious about wildlife conservation (and Kenya, where this happened, supposedly is) should be reimbursing the locals for any livestock taken. There's a village somewhere in the Himalayas where the farmers lose sheep to snow leopards. But they don't mind the big cats because the government reimburses them.

And yes, absolutely the anger I felt in that moment is nothing compared to what I save for trophy hunters. Another issue is that lion bone has replaced tiger bone in places like China, as it's a lot easier to get. Rich people pass it round as a party favour, and these people are the ones that motivate poachers. No rich people buying the 'products', no poachers killing the animals.

I agree that there are safer ways to deal with wildlife and the case you brought up of local villagers safely trapping and relocating tigers and leopards proves that local people have far more respect for nature than the media gives them credit for. However, it all boils down to government providing the means of safely dealing with said animals (wildlife vets, tranquilizer darts, etc.) and how serious that government is in compensating for the costs of co-existing with dangerous wildlife. 

At the end of the day, the locals who have called these spaces home for decades, if not centuries, have just as much right to be in those spaces as any other living being and that is a hill I will die on. The trick is to balance biodiversity conservation with social upliftment. Let us be cognizant of the fact that we are speaking from positions of privilege when commenting on said communities and let us exercise some empathy and understanding when doing so.

Having said all that, thank you for your thoughtful response. Discourse of this nature is why I joined WildFact in the first place. Reply