Lions of Sabi Sands

[Xiku_kutsu]

(02-01-2023, 08:07 PM)SMK350 Wrote:

(02-01-2023, 11:05 AM)Xiku_kutsu Wrote:

(02-01-2023, 08:14 AM)sik94 Wrote: Males can be territorial for months before taking over a pride. The pride isn't just gonna give in, a new coalition could dethrone a coalition and take that territory at which point they are territorial in my book. They may not be pride males at this point but if they are holding a territory and defending it, they are territorial. Sometimes both of these happen simultaneously, like the PCs case for example.

I agree. And just to add, it's not just your book, because according to most articles, territoriality is generally defined as " “the defense of an area,” wherein the area being defended is known as the “territory.” " The definition is made general/open to interpretation on purpose so it can act as a building block to create more specific terms for different animals, like how you said "pride male", for a territorial male that has secured a pride.

I think saying a male cannot be territorial without securing a pride first is mixing up one of the functions of a territory, which is acquiring mates, as a criteria to being considered territorial. The criteria is just defending an area. Lions typically become territorial and secure a pride at the same time because they typically form their territories to encompass a pride's territories. But acquiring mates can come after becoming territorial in some cases.

I guess we are getting terms mixed up here. Males can act territorial but they are not considered dominant males until they secure a pride. All males that reach sexual maturity will show dominance behaviors. Roaring and scent marking doesn't make one a dominant male anymore than the Talamati males are dominant even though they scent mark. I used the example of zoo animals displaying dominance behavior because it's really important to realize that these behaviors are instinctual in all lions. One of the most critical functions of a male lion is to protect the territory of PRIDES. Conquering empty territories is not a thing. It's definitely some kind of arrested developed if males don't have a strong interest in claiming a pride to the point that they will abandon an empty territory to actually go somewhere were there are females.

"As I said, Mongawane males are territorial around Shindzela for over a year now, they are roaring, scent marking and defending their territory, without having a full pride yet, because pride in the area, like Avocas, moved out and avoid them because they have cubs/subs." 

This is definitely an issue because prime males would typically seek out females not stay in one area for over a year without a pride. There are adult females with the Avocas who have been mating for over a year so there was no reason to let them slip through their hands. Just today I saw that the 4 Black Dams are "hot on the trail" of the Avoca pride. That's why they are dominant males and Mongawanes are, as of now, just bachelor males. The 4 Black Dams are not the same status as the Mongawanes.

Well, I won't be redundant since others have already mentioned how dominant males can refer to a dominance over an area or a pride, and I often hear guides using it interchangeably. But just to clarify, I don't think lions purposefully take over "empty" land. As I said, they typically take over the areas where the lionesses are. But there are circumstances when lionesses with young cubs don't want anything to do with them, which results in these new dominant males still lacking a pride for a period of time because they're busy playing a game of hide and seek to catch them. This period of time can be brief or take months, but this isn't really the males' "fault" and they can still be considered dominant as long as keep rivals out of the area. Reply