Animal trainers

[peter]

PC

In post 77, Baumann refers to trainer Eric Klant, who later became known as 'Klant' Hagenbeck (Hagenbeck was his adopted father). Klant was a trainer who later had a training facility in Valkenburg (the Netherlands). It featured in a documentary I saw at the IDFA-documentary festival in Amsterdam many years ago.

When I had interviewed a number of trainers, I got the number of Klant. I called him and we talked for a long time. He asked me to send him a letter with everything that was discussed and later responded. Same for the questions I had. Klant's answers are interesting, as he probably worked with more animals than all others. 

One day, he called me from the airport. He said he wanted to continue the discussion on big cats as soon as he returned. We set a date, but he died before we met. A great pity. He was involved in animals till the day he died. 

Polar

One could write a book on tigers and bears. Wild animals first.

Interactions between Sumatran tigers and sun bears were described in a number of books written by Dutch hunters. Although little is known, they seem to avoid each other. There are exceptions. There is a newspaper report on a fight between a sun bear and a tiger. Both perished. The report had no information on gender and age. I found more in the books I read and posted on it in the tiger-extinction thread.

Indian tigers and sloth bears co-exist in many parts of India. Incidents are quite rare, but there is no question that some male tigers hunt bears. Although sloth bears are more than capable to stand their ground, I never heard of a tiger killed. Not so the other way round. 

Himalayan black bears, larger than their relatives in southeastern Russia, are more formidable opponents than sloth bears. Corbett described a fight between a large and very fat male bear and an adult male tiger. Although injured (he was scalped and his nose was broken), the bear chased the tiger and took his cow. I heard more rumours pointing in the same direction, but didn't find any reports. Tigers and Himalayan bears trapped in 'rings' in Nepal fought at times. In the cases witnessed, the bears fought together and chased the tigresses. Male tigers in northern India and Nepal are among the largest, but adult male Himalayan black bears are more than capable to handle a tiger. In Vietnam, Himalayan black bears and tigers also met at times. I never found anything about interactions, but male bears were even larger than those in the Himalayas. 

The only tigers habitually hunting bears are Amur tigers. Although there is a lot of information, it isn't easy to find your way. In some regions tiger hunt bears quite often, but in others they are not hunted at all. Many reports contradict each other.

Some time ago, Ursus arctos middendorffi (now a mod in Carnivora) send me a link to a new study on food habits of Amur tigers. I posted extensively on it in the tiger extinction thread. In the study, Kerley, Miquelle and others admitted they could have been wrong in some departments. Tigers apparently hunt bears more often than they thought, especially in summer and in autumn. It's also clear the bears they hunt are larger than they assumed. Many researchers who thought that tigers avoid large bears because of the risks, had to adjust their opinion. Another researcher (Tkachenko), reporting on tigers and bears in a reserve close to Chabarowsk, confirmed that bears are an important source of food. Things, therefore, seem to be a bit different than many thought. 

As to adult males. Many years ago, Russian researchers concluded brown bears win 'on points'. They also concluded tigers probably dominate the cruiser class (150-200 kg.). After that mark, brown bears, even when similar in weight, seem to have the advantage. The reason is extra-thick layers of muscle in the neck. But Krechmar, also an undisputed authority, thought there isn't much to choose between both in a fysical fight. Bears well exceeding 200 kg. most probably go unchallenged (for the simple reason Amur tigers seldom, if ever, compare), but animals of that size are few and far between.

As to the popular notions on tigers, exhaustion and the need for quick victories. There are numerous instances of tigers involved in lengthy all-out brawls with bears and lions. Maybe Amur tigers quickly overheat in snowy conditions, but the fights witnessed in captivity point in another direction. The main reason tigers struggle in drawn-out fights with bears is they face a more robust animal. Most wild male tigers killed in fights were young adults, whereas the bear was described as 'large' or 'very large'. When both are similar in weight, however, tigers seem to have the best chance. That, al least, is the opinion of those who witnessed fights. Vaillant, in his book on a man-eater in Russia in the nineties of the last century, talked to those in the know and this was the conclusion they (not he) got to. Miquelle thought his book was excellent. Same for me.

It is a fact that the margins are close when both are similar in size and age. Most victors have a decisive advantage: male beats female, old beats young and big beats small. As simple as that. Prime males are not often killed in a fair fight. It happens, but the outcome of an encounter often is unpredictable. It's individuality all the way. Based on what I saw and heard (captive animals), I agree. I can also confirm that youngish animals, like in humans, often tend to go for it, size deficit or not. The most able fighters I saw (ferocity, speed, acceleration and teeth) could have been Sumatrans. Compared to them, all larger cats and bears appeared to be clumsy. Although the Lord of War likes size, I'm not so sure after what I saw. They definitely stand a decent chance, but that's only an opinion.           

As to the remarks on tigers and bears in your posts. Remember this is a forum visited by many. You are a good poster, but we, no insult intended, want to prevent firm opinions. Same for lions and tigers and lions and bears. The reason is the outcome of a fight between two animals of similar size often is unpredictable. There probably are a few general rules, but there are exceptions to every rule. So many, that it's difficult to get to statements at the best of times. You just never know and that's the message we want to convey. Reply