Modern Weights and Measurements of Wild Lions

[SpinoRex]

(03-05-2022, 10:30 PM)GuateGojira Wrote:

(03-05-2022, 02:51 AM)SpinoRex Wrote: 1) They dont need to be officially published if they were confirmed by the scientist in a personal communication already and the reserve. Though if a scientist will be aware of those datas of course he will include it if they get the same respond in a personal communication. (As i know yamaguchi was already informed about this male and he was interested). The other reason is because they wont publish a study just because they weighed a lion. They were weighed during a collaring of the younger male and thats it. Unless they are part of a study i dont think they will publsihed. 

2) The lion was 5-6 years old and as already mentioned lions reach their best weight at around 8-10 most of the time. The other fact is that the lion was dimensionally not impressive but his chest girth was due to his weight. Volkel for instant was longer and had a thicker chest then this male as well as the fact that one male lion of th ehomob coalition reached nearly the same weight.

Also Guate read what i wrote! Who would be so delusional to claim that this isnt a max weight (or close to it)? I was saying as Huberry said the male had UP TO 20 kg in his stomach i said the estimate of 240 kg empty is rather a minimum but the real height wont be any higher than that unless a triffle kgs. Yes i know they include stoamch content but a male of 4.5 at 244 kg is really HUGE. Beside the detailed mail from Ingela Jansson i found weights of 230 kg and 235 kg. Though the exact weight was 250 kg with - the scale indicating 237 kg. This info suggests a bed will weigh c.13 kg, which i think will be useful in the future.

About the male from Ingela one may look at the pictures. He had stomach content but was by no means full. His stomach content must range either from 15-20 kg, which means the weight of c.220 kg empty at c.4 years is accurate.


3) Its basic. The males were just translocated to a other National Park to increase the population size. Had nothing to do with research. Here the answer:

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

1) If they don't need to officially publish them, then why your people, from other forums, critizice the weigths from modern tigers that were shared in the same form and that are not published too? There is a double standard out there amoung "fans", if the weight came from lions is automatically acepted no matter what, but if the weight came from tigers is discussed, attacked and discarded. They can publish an article in they webpage, in fact they done it and that how we knew about it in the first place, but latter they DELETED that article from they webpage and we have only emails, the question is why? I used the weight of 250 kg from that particular lion from Timbabati since many years because is the only that is partially "verified" by a third party person, but certainly is not in the top section of valid or reliable figures. I will like to see what Yamaguchi thinks about that weight, specially by the fact that he critizice the weights that include stomach content.

2) The lion of 260 kg is impresive and had a body size that is a record in scientific sources, remember that the head-body length was taken until the base of the tail in straight line, which suggest that the head-body measured untill the tip of the hip (like old hunters took the size) was no less than 200 cm. Now Volkel was not measured in the same form, it was taken along the curves and heavily exagerated as it was taken from the tip of the frontal teeth not to the tip of the nose, and this artificially increase even more all the head-body lengths taken from the Hobatere lions (check the ALPRU protocol used the measure them). So the lion of 260 kg from Dr Hu Berry is overal bigger (or equal in the best case) than Vokel from Hobatere and the difference is in the method that they used to measure them. You need to pay attention to the details.

You should be careful with the information on the lion Puyol, you are taking all the values litteraly. The scale real weight is 200 kg, she said that it make another turn so they ESTIMATED that was 250 kg and excluding the bed of c.13 kg they estimated, again, that the weight was of c.237 kg and they published the figure of 235 kg. So if you actually read the email, the scale was of 200 kg and all over that is an estimation. I made a little investigation years ago with butchers that work with spring scales and they told me that the amount that they can estimate over the scale is between 5 - 10 kg above the limit. This was corroborated by some hunters and Dr Chundawat. So that the scale was bottomed by 50 kg seems a little far fetched, specially by the fact that Ingela and the original article where the figure of 235 kg was quoted clearly says that the scale was imperfect and had some errors. Also remember that the resulting weight also include stomach content, so the real empty belly weight could be between 205 - 215 kg, after all they estimated that 25% of the weight was probably from stomach content (those are they words, not mine). 

3) Taking a second look to those weights, just the weights of lion C and V are reliable, the other is just a mental quote and definitelly needs verification from the source. Around 230 kg could be "more than" or "less than". So I will certainly use male C and V, but the third male looks like an estimation. You should confirm with him if he is 100% sure that that weight is correct.

Guate read the mail again. He weighed 3 males and he stated the smallest was 222 kg and the heaviest 237 kg. Though the other lion was definetely havier than the 222 kg and looking at his memeroy he said it was around 230 kg so there is no problem (A wonder itself he remembered those numbers after 30 years). Percentages are completely inaccurate according to Bertram. His stomach shows a lion with c.20 kg looking at Bertrams protocol.

Some scales generally make a 2nd turn so even the bottomed weight can be seen. Generally if a scale is bottomed normally you cant adjust the bed equipment or whatever. So these scales are better than those scales that go to a certain weight and just stop. The same goes for Puyol who weighed with bed equipment 250 kg and minus it 237 kg. ingela in a other email rounds the number to 240 kg. The exact weight by the scale is 237 kg.

One interesting note is that Punchkatta the (c.285 kg male) didnt bottom but broke the scale. That means around 60 kg is needed to break a scale i think.

I couldnt find any pic of the HOMOB coalition sadly Reply