Modern Weights and Measurements of Wild Lions

[GuateGojira]

(02-22-2022, 02:37 AM)SpinoRex Wrote: Though i took it then falsely as a offensive reply... m

I think it will be a useless discussion without clear-cut datas (i dont think they will ever exist if i am being honest). About the african lions i do not know that they are called as the same subspecies now (previously southern ones were seperated). And they have also different skull sizes but as i said i dont think that makes a difference. I understand your skull point. But thats not enough and what i am talking about is the bone robusticity and even then with a noticable difference (the human example) the difference at least at similar conditions shouldnt be 50 kg.

I found the studies finally...

Yes lions hunt more often. I mean how 50 preys are enough for a pride? But as i said i found more datas but those are from small reserves and not from Kruger. But still from SA.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication...ll_reserve

This study estimated the food intake for adult males via calculation at 4.1-4.6 kg for lionesses, 6.5 kg for male lion and for subadults overall 3.2 kg  and has generally valuable infos.
https://journals.co.za/doi/pdf/10.10520/EJC117162

The nepal tigresses weighed 140 kg. But they werent adjusted from what i know looking at the tables (the males werent adjusted). I dont have the paper but remember it like that.

So i dont know how tiger would do in africa but physically i dont think it would be a big problem. They are fast and strong big cats like lions but of course the conditions are different and therefore confrontet with a different lifestyle. But that comparison wasnt the main point and isnt good enough.

I personally dont think any population is challenging the crater lions in terms of size. Those of delta lion might be not far away but the bulkiness of those lions are unrivaled. Even those from the Ngorongoro CA are big but not near to the Crater area. The fact that even lions like kalamas were lucky to enter the crater sometimes shows how strong the males are there. In the dry seasons the lions seem to be slightly leaner in terms of fatpercentage but still impressive. I mean those that live in the crater and not the ones that visited the crater for a short time...

Yes, sorry, in the middle of the debate some hard words my arise, but it maybe be because English is not my main language, but believe me, I am not upset.

Thank you for the studies, so again, necesary food intake for great cats, specificall lions and tigers, will be calculated between 4-6 kg for females and 7-8 kg for males. You will see it in any wild cat book. In fact, as far I know, that is the daily amount that most zoos manage. Here in Guatemala they feed lions and tigers with 5 kg for females and 7 kg for males, divided in two meals, one in morning and one in night. 

The original figure for tigresses in Nepal is 140 with a sample of 19, but that includes recaptures. If we use only the known 7 adult weights (of 8) is of 145 kg. And we need to take in count that some subadult females (4) already weighed like adult ones (3 of them over 120 kg). So that is why excluding the 14 kg the average is about 130 kg empty.

Personally I think that tigers will fail in Africa with a harsh introduction, all predators are social there and the leopards survive because they are sneaky and can claimb trees. Cheetahs suffer a lot and lions/hyenas/Lycaons had constant competition. Tigers do not had that, they may compite with wolves, dholes and leopards, but they normally dominate all of them. Crocs, snakes and bears are not direct competitors and tigers can kill them. So tigers evolved to be true kings by they own, but they don't had to compete with such a large amount of predators. Nature is very wise and that is why when the original Panthera specimen evolved in Africa, they adapted in the only two forms that could survive until our days (lions and leopards) and in Asia the tiger dominated (leopards were already prepared, as they evolved at the side of lions) but is tide to close forrests and water bodies with low prey base and low competition. This do not means that tigers are weaker than lions, after all tigers are doing well in the reserves from "Saves China's Tigers" and trive even in the open habitat, but eventually tigers would need to change to survive in Africa, and that can be done only with time (which may take several decades, if not more...). Tigers are very social actually, with tigresses living in clusters and all of them are related, like a lionesses pride that is scatered in they own personal space. Male tigers respect tigresses when they had cubs and may even wait for they turn and play with they cubs. So tigers had all the capacity to be social like lions, but in Asia is uneconomical. The hole last chapter in Dr Sunquist document of 1981 is very ilustrative in these points, plus the books of Valmik Thapar, which I had in my library.

Via personal communication with Dr Packer, he told me that they had never published any information about Crater lions, but that he remember that that the biggest and smallest chest girth for males in that population is of 143 cm and 120 cm respectivelly, with an average of c.130 cm. This is close to other Southern African populations with similar prey rich habitats. Until someone did actually weight those lions (like the tigers of Kaziranga) all will be only speculations. Reply