Modern Weights and Measurements of Wild Lions

[Pckts]

(02-18-2022, 12:50 AM)SpinoRex Wrote:

(02-17-2022, 05:08 AM)GuateGojira Wrote:

(02-17-2022, 04:20 AM)SpinoRex Wrote: I overall dont know the circumstances of a NT male (as some can have alliances). But given the conditions and stress they are living they wont survive well. The sucessrate of a NT male isnt measured but from what i have researched it isnt actually significantly lower as we are talking about males in this case, which are of course more experienced, which means its higher than the overall. Which is the reason for the average food intake with large samples. We have the food intake of Pride males and it was just 9.4 kg, which may indicate as i said a safe live (not easy by far of course). Lions are generally lean and fit but have a high potential of course.

The alliances of some male lions will definetely surpass most pride males in just individual size. Like as i said Mabande and Ximpoko who were nomads with a terretory (at least at the time when they were weighed). These arent the only ones i have seen. Lions who are doing well completely alone can be found. Those nomadic males are massive, with just some out of many pride males reaching that level. The nomadic males i am talking about is for example kalamas, the Kenya lion and various nomadic male lions alone or together.

Overall there are tons of factors. But the fact remained that NT males ate on average more than a T male by a great margin, although being more under pressure and so on. Over 3 hyenas per kill is a very high number actually

But a male tiger is completely different. Not only in their lifestyle (Solitary) but also compared to a male(esp NT) in africa they are better conditioned . So a terretorial male tiger is definetely above a pride male in terms of food intake just looking at the significant difference. I made that conclusion just after seeing the data and the other discussions were just assumptions from the past.

Regarding the Nepal males only 2 adult males were collared by Sunquist thats safe to say. The rest are adult females.

I mean 9.4 kg on average for a pride male from kruger (may be lower in other areas) is more a diet for a fit lion. Thats not impressive at all.

Thats just my opinion but its definetely reasonable.

Again, you are ignoring the conclutions and report of people like Schaller, Bertram, Packer and many others that shows that T males are bigger, eat more and had a significant easier life than the NT males. The problem here is that you are basing your conclutions in just one document, while we are stating our conclutions is several documents, reports, documentaries, etc.

The food intake of 9 kg for an adult male lion do not make any sence at all. That may be only the minimal amount estimated that is necesary for a lion in 24 hours, but is by no means the real food intake. Lions gorge themselves and we have several pictures and videos about that. There is even a video where a group of lions, several males included, that eat a large antelope in less than 15 min (as far I remember, may be less time).

Those presumably large males that you quote, were actually weighed and measured? Because if they "large" size was based only in visual apreciation there is huge margin of error there.

Comparison with tigers is incorrect as tigers make a kill every 8-9 days and stay with it about 3 days, a harder life. Lions on the other hand, they need to kill more often, in some cases even daily (if the prey is too small), but this affect more the lionesses which eat after the dominant male lion eat they fill. Male lions do not care about its pride in food issues (they even may kill they own sons for daring to eat with them), they want to eat to they fill and that is all. Everyone here can tell you that. They even fight for food, the sociability degree of lions is very primitive in comparison with canids, for example.

I don't know why you mention the tigers from Sunquist, what is the point? We already know the number of tigers in the entire Nepalese study. You are ignoring what I told you, that you was saying that Sunquist only recorded 2 intances of male food intake, and I showed to you that was at least 7 events.

Again, male lions, especially territorial ones, eat until they gorge themselves with amounts up to 33 kg. Maybe in lean times or in harder habitats like in deserts, they may eat less, but certainly the lionesses suffer more and need to kill often.

I understand your other points but for me there is no way a tiger living in harder conditions than a lion in africa. Thats like saying a tiger in africa will do better than in india (even excluding prides). Tigers dont need to hunt as much as lions as they have significantly more meat available(even more so than NT males). The only serious enemies tigers have are their own species (and that in a fair 1v1 battle). Put a tiger in africa i doubt he will do better as a solitary cat than in india (even assuming prides arent existing). A nomadic male with a own area or even terretory will be definetely heavier than a pride male. So you can have your own opinion but my remains unless i see new datas. A NT male will gorge himself too and even more so than a terretorial male.

Because he collared only 2 adult males as i know but regardless even using the general average of 17 kg its ahead of the kruger lions. As assumed in the past kruger lions seem to do better than most lion population/subspecies. Weight is really tricky and when a population is called heavier than others you are automatically assuming its genetically heavier(Stronger bones structure), which can be completely wrong. The best examples are lions. I saw some measurements and weights from Hamilton and those even being really long (some 200+ cm) were 60 kg lighter than a 20cm shorter male from Kalahari. Thats the result of comparing many samples and various individual lions from my side and as you analyzed many datas you maybe noticed it. Just looking at most individuals the average lion is leaner than the average tiger, which may support my assumption in a certain way. 

If you have other points you can write it.

Comparing conditions in Africa v India is like comparing Sand to Water.... They're very different. Claiming Africa to have harder conditions than India is baseless, especially since I'm assuming you've been to neither?
If you're saying there is less competition in India v Africa, that is true but there is far less available prey too. So the idea that Tigers have more meat available than Lions is wrong and it's not even close. Let's not forget, Lions already live in India and they don't reach the same dimensions as they do in Africa, so that already goes against your claim. 
And most certainly a Nomadic Male will not be heavier than a Pride male, nothing in that paper you posted supports that theory either so you're basing it off of misleading excerpts. Reply