Who is the "king" of tigers? - Bengal or Amur

[GuateGojira]

(01-26-2022, 02:09 AM)SpinoRex Wrote: Thanks for the informations.

I generally believe "modern" bengal tigers are around 210 kg or 205 kg idk. I have been active on tigers for a while and the datas are usable but not that kind of stuff were i would say "gotcha" , which i hope happens in the future. As i know Cristiansen provided apparently a sample of 13 Bengal tigers with a weight of 213 kg, 35 African lions with a weight of 203 kg (Both bengals and african lions were mostly wild) and Siberian Tigers with a weight of 227 kg n=17 (50% wild and 50% captive)... the wild ones were 206 kg if i remeber it. But i doubt anyone will do a research just based on body size like Smuts (he did other things as well but you get my point) did on lions. Branders data is maybe comparable but i digress. There arent many tigers to do such kind of intensive study.

IDK if you included it but Habib actually replied someone that he weighed a male of 180 kg and his heaviest was 240 kg, which has to be the RTR tiger named T24 Ustaad. 

Also i noticed the difference between collaring and rescuing, treatment a bit. For collaring they will use standard - big ones or better said those who are "worth" being tracked. Whiles the ones in recues are generally smaller (not always smaller) mainly also bcs of the non terretorial tigers. Thats the conclusion i got from the numbers.

Also idk if you were aware of that but the c.285 kg male of Dr. Jhala was the male named Punchkatta who broke the 225 kg scale when he was weighed. The male was from my enquiries also reliable as Dr. Jhala confirmed it to me. Here is the mail Shadow got from Jhala and the user Khan85 got the weight of c.285 kg.

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

Also i wouldnt adjust these gorged specimens and just let them with a note. Gorged generally is between 20-30 kg so the estimated empty weight of 250 kg would represent then the minimum empty stomach weight.

Appreciate your work and tables.

Great information and I appreciate the feedback.

In fact, I am aware of all the points that you mention it here, so let me share my point of view on them.

1 - At this moment, with the sample of 27 males that I have (5 still not confirmed to me directly) I got an average weight of 220 kg. This, of course, may change if we have more specimens in the future, which I hope so. 

2 - I will love to see the samples of Dr Christiansen, specially to check the sources. I will also would like to see the references for the Amur tigers and check how he got such a large average (in relation with mine) for the population, is he including new weights from the Amur Tiger Programme? This are the things that I will like to know in order to use his information. Dr Christiansen is a very reliable person.

3 - The study of Smuts is impecable, but could not be done with tigers, not in the same form. Dr Smuts used hunted lions too in his sample, so he could be 100% sure if the animal had or not stomach content. This can't be done with modern tigers, and the only one that more or less done it was the Maharaja of Cooch Behar, which is the only one that took the time to report the tigers that were gorged and those that were empty belly.

4 - From mister Habib, I still don't have the pleasure to speak with him (I will love to do it!), but I am informed by a second person about the reliability of the weight of 240 kg for tiger Ustad (in fact, is included in my tables), but I do not know about the male of 180 kg. I will like to have more details about the tigers of Ranthambore, specially by the fact that Dr Jhala said that those are particularly large.

5 - About the difference between "rescued" and "studied", I noted that with the Sundarbans tigers. In fact ALL the tigers in my sample from that area are "rescued" or "problematic" specimens, some of them even unable to hunt. Sadly, those are the only ones reported and that is why I still use them. I am sure that healthy Sundarbans tigers may be a little heavier, like the Sumatran tigers, but for the moment this is what I have. Other thing, I noted that Indian scientist do not like to much to share they information, but it will be perfect if one of them, in the future maybe, could make a document like those from the Siberian Tiger Project, which include all the detaiils of they captures.

6 - Finally, about the tiger of 285 kg reported by Dr Jhala, I will like more information about it too, but actually I do decided to include it in my tables. Now, I adjusted it at 255 kg, folllowing Dr Karanth that substracted 30 kg from his tigers, so I think that for the moment the figure of 255 kg "empty" is accurate. And is also included already in the sample of Central India. Reply